w8pmc

& you'd always be wanting the perfect blend of muscle & dynamics which even the 725BHP Brabus can't deliver.

You've no doubt heard the saying "Power is nothing without control" & for that i give you the M5. For just Power i give you the Brabus.

The facts are the facts, as the Brabus has over double the M5's Torque, well over 200BHP more & costs over twice as much & yet it can only match the M5.

BetterMakeWay

(continue)...which is just a humble 4 door family saloon.

0700700

absolutely, but not everything in this world is about dynamics , driver involvement etc... Sorry but if you were a serious track-goer you wouldnt take a 1800kg pig for a lap , now would you?

youd go for a Lotus Exige, M3 CSL, 911 GT3 RS... etc

BetterMakeWay

Somehow valid argument. On the other side if you were really like track maniac you'd go for catterhams or monoposts. And this can go on and on to the limit of...well F1?!?
I dunno if you get my point, just view it as a whole image. The reason i would choose the E60 M5 and probably why w8pmc did it is because it ticked all the boxes. It made no compromise for what it essentially is: a 4 door saloon. But you missed the point where that 4 door saloon got the same time as that pumped up with steriods Merc.
And yes a driver's car should be about dymanics and driver involvment and handling and etc etc. And that's how i answer that a merc will never be more of a driver's car than a bmw. Either they don't know how or they don't want to and that's it.

w8pmc

When have i ever said i'm a SERIOUS track goer?? I've done quite a few track days (3-5 per year) but hardly a regular & yes if i was a track enthusiast then i'd probably opt for a GT3/RS, however i'm not & i need back seats.

So my point (as always) is i can get round most tracks in respectable times & certainly keep up with most more track oriented cars, yet have a far better drive to/from the track (see quicker as well) & still use the car for work/family. I'm sorry but until Mercedes bring out a car thats anything other than quick in a straight line (see feels a bit like a sprots car), then i'll be steering well clear. All AMG/Brabus etc. are great cars but they're very narrow minded & appeal more to those getting on in years rather than someone whose more enthusiastic about their driving dynamics.

To me blunt, driving is the whole package that being speed, agility, handling, chassis & comfort & at this point in time & to the best of my knowledge only the M5 can tick all those boxes along with the M6 if you're OK with less rear room.

0700700

and for the n-th time i reply that AMGs are about much more than straight line speed. Properly equipped (e.g. im getting the kleemann LSD in the next few months + better brakes) they can keep up with the M5s on most tracks (arguably by going really fast on the staights ). As for me i prefer a more laid back drive rather than having my spine relocated after any lengthy drive in the m3. And no im not old by any meaning of the word, i just thnk that you have to enjoy a car for the complete package that it offers.. I tried it with the M3 and found it not to be quite the thing.

That said if the new e92 m3 comes with a DSG type box... then well see

w8pmc

So let me just repeat. That Brabus carzy power machine only equalled the Top gear lap time for a standard E60 M5, so how in gods name can a CLS55 or 63 keep up on a track????????.

If a far more powerful car can only match then how can a lower power or equal at best also keep up????? If you're modifying your car with better brakes & a Kleemann LSD then you're answering all the points about AMG's that don't work well when pushed (handling & stopping), these being things the E60 M5 can do out of the box.

Agree with the more laid back driving approach which is waht AMG's do very well, that being relaxed rapid cruisers but they lack the driver involvment of an M5.

0700700

too much power makes it even harder to keep the car straight on the road ?? I believe its possible to keep the CLS55 stable in a lot of places where the brabus roadster would just smoke its wheels to oblivion

btw.. you never even congratulated me on my car

george44

700700,
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm curious why you continue here on the e60.net forum?
Wouldn't you be happier with people of similar interests somwhere like this: www.mercedesforum.com

I think it's true to say that most people on this forum enjoy posting about their cars and motoring experiences, sharing their opinions with others who can relate to them. And ultimately, they are here on this forum because whatever foibles their vehicle may have, they love BMW and they love their cars!

Sorry, I just don't get your gig at all.

Chase at Stett

look, the story is really very simple here


it's no secret that MB has never been as performance minded as BMW, even when they try to be. BMW designs their chassis (sp?) with their ///Ms in mind, they design the entire car around performance first then make consolations and changes where needed to make it a desireable street car.


The M5 is not a track car by any means, nor was it ever advertised as one. Nor was the Brabus. They are designed as autobahn burning monsters that are comfortable and impressive. The track test is given as an overall method to test all the performance components of the car. On a track such as the Top Gear track you can test acceleration, possibly top speed, handling and braking. Those are the key 4 components to a track time.

As has been said already, the track test demonstrates that the M5 is a more complete performance car. I like to often say that Mercedes is the MOPAR of german cars... strap alot of power into a car and see what happens. They obviously have very refined interiors and designs and those are what make the car so desireable. MB has figured out that the image status that they provide is the perfect match for a big horsepower number. Same reason that Asanti puts wood grain or jewels in their high-end wheels... because the flash is impressive.

I have never met a Mercedes AMG owner that said a thing about the balance of their car or was a TRUE car enthusiast who goes to the track on the weekends, drools over gutted out E36 M3s with drag radials on them, etc. That is not an MB owner.

That is not to slight the MB owners, the truth is that 99% of MB owners know exactly what they are getting into and are happy to do it.

Also, remember that most people who can afford a Brabus or an M5 or an AMG mercedes aren't too concerned about whether that car is track ready, because they can easily afford to go buy a Porsche or Lotus.

Would I personally drive an AMG or Brabus? Absolutely not because I know what I'd be getting into and I do not what they provide... obviously alot do.

If I wanted sheer acceleration and bone-jarring horsepower I'd go buy a Z06 and supercharge it or build a 427 Cobra kit car w/ a C5R race motor in it.

Different strokes for different folks and that's all there is too it.

I know that they do it becuas ethey are competitors, but I often times find the comparison between MBs and BMWs in magazines, shows, etc. laughable because they are cars built with two totally different philosophies.


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