tonyb635

You will have the gap maybe it gets a little better with time as the material looses the stress. I hope you realize what this foam pad is for... Its not to set gap or anything that someone might thing. This pad is a crash absorbing pad and this is the main purpose for it, not to hold your bumper out or anything like that. When some see a styrofoam pad they think of supporting devices etc, nope, its needed to pass the crash test requirements and believe it or not will help you out in a severe frontal crash. I would strongly advise that you replace it with a smaller one that fits better or shave a little off so that it fits.

BimmerFan52

You have a good eye.
I also saw the color mismatch right away when I picked it up. They will be reshooting the bumper paint again when they install the new bumper parts I picked up today.

BimmerFan52

I picked up the new foam inserts today and reviewed them with the shop. Wednesday they will be repainting the bumper (color was off) as well as installing the new foam inserts and proper brake ducts (purchased several weeks ago) when they reinstall the bumper.

When we discussed the wisdom of modifying or shaving the bumper the body shop indicated that the foam insert is an integral part of a carefully designed crash zone in the front end and they didn't feel comfortable shaving or modifying it.

They also agreed with me that any stretching or distorting of the front bumper cover could lead to distortion or cracking in the future.

umnitza

Mtech bumpers are ABS, not PP
The foam pad is usually shaved by the body shop and it's pretty obvious at the time of install, we can probably put a guide in there, but if we start with the little things the body shop should know, we would wind up writing a book for them.
usually a self-installed bumper - in our experience - is a better installed bumper. Shops don't usually have enough time to fiddle and make it right.

Let us know if you need any assistance - info@umnitza.com

tonyb635

Interesting... Maybe what you should do is put together a recommend sheet or FAQ sheet. This would help out the future customers. I agree with not putting specific instructions but some information and details are nice to know.

1. Foam pad - replace this with pn xxxx to achieve the fit needed and to prevent unwanted stress on bumper. We do not recommend cutting this pad since it's part of the safety system.

2. Material - Front is Mtech is ABS and paint adhesion to this material if very good. If your bumper is made from PP as in the M5tech etc you WILL need to apply an adhesion promoter before painting.

3. Rear bumpers - Recommend that you replace the three brackets L, R and C according to the style that you order (Mtech, M5) using the old brackets will not allow for proper support. We don't want to see our product zip tied to you car!

4. Side skirts - recommend to purchase new clips or at least a few since most of the old ones will lose their strength once removed.

5. Recommend that the coating of these items be tested by the painter to ensure compatibility before prepping and painting begins. In most cases this coating must be removed. It's not difficult just a PITA when it's unexpected...

DR-JEKL

Just out of curiosity how much lower is the m tech front bar over the oem item?

pukka

Alot has to do with the type of body shop you use. Keep in mind that replacing an OEM stock bumper with a different type is a modification and not a repair so it requires a higher level of expertise to pull it off.

With that in mind, some body shops just suck when it comes to doing stuff like this - they employ people who only know how to use their hands and not their brains. Most body shops focus on accident repairs so the attention to detail required to do a modification may not be there. A preferred body shop would be one that is authorized by the car maker to work on their cars but if you aren't using OEM parts you may still have problems.

The BEST type of body shop to use is one that specializes in restorations. These types of shops are hard to find, may only accept referrals, are usually too busy with other jobs so you will have to wait until they can get to your car, operate on a cash/check only basis, and are more expensive to do business with. But since these places rely on their reputation you can bet they will get the job done right. I was lucky and found a place like this only a few miles from my house - needless to say my retrofit was perfect.

G.Sauce

Tonyb -

Excellent writeup and thanks for pointing those out.... I was not aware with some of those items that you pointed out.. now I have to go out and buy those.

I too ordered the MTech Replica kit from Umnitza and will have the full kit installed hopefully by the end of this week. Will get it washed up and post pics for everyone. Wish me luck!

BimmerFan52

Initially I was shocked at this seemingly cavalier response from "the factory". But after I reflect upon my abysmal customer service experience in not being able to get an answer for two days as to where my order was, I guess I should not expect more.

You state "MTech bumpers are ABS, not PP". This information then begs the question - Why is the title of the item I purchased on your website "E60 (5-series) M5 Tech PolyPropylene Bumper (FRONT)" ? After that bold heading the body of text continues for three paragraphs expounding upon the virtues of polypropylene. - http://www.umnitza.com/e60-5series-m...nt-p-1244.html

You state "The foam pad is usually shaved by the body shop and it's pretty obvious at the time of installation". Yet after research on the forums I find there are all kinds of people, both DIY and body shop installed, that apparently had no idea that this bumper is not designed to fit over the stock foam pads and have suffered a poor fit.

And is shaving of the foam pad an "official recommendation" of Umnitza, given the potential that someone (skilled or otherwise) could damage the integrity of the part, and in turn the integrity of the 2 mph impact sustainability as regulated by law (DOT-NHTSA)? I realize that the law pertains to the manufacturer, with no specific requirements as to modification after purchase by the owner, but I think it makes sense to maintain that integrity. And I am sure for higher impacts BMW engineers made assumptions regarding how the foam pads control and direct the energy distributed into the crumple zone. One poster on the forum removed his foam pads completely to improve the fit! Your resistance to imparting information leaves customers in the dark and driven to make assumptions.

You state "If we start with the little things they should know, we would wind up writing a book for them". Are you serious????? Do you really think that replacement of an OE part with a part that is sold with the assumption, and no disclaimer otherwise, that it fits but doesn't is a little thing? Boy, I'm glad your company doesn't sell water pumps for BMWs. I can just hear you now, "Any mechanic should know that you just have to drill a little larger hole in the block and cut some new threads and the larger bolt provided will fit".

And the parts required to properly fit the bumper cover to the car are not limited to the foam pads. I also discovered that the brake ducts that come stock on the E60 will not fit the M-Tech bumper. I called Umnitza to get the part numbers and was told that you don't know (meaning you are taught not to say for fear of a part number being communicated incorrectly). I eventually was able to track down and order the correct ducts.

You state "A self-installed bumper - in our experience - is a better installed bumper". Is it your recommendation that your product is only for those who DIY? News flash - Your average customer isn?t Chip Foose or Ryan Friedlinghaus with an army of experienced customizers at his beck and call.

I'd be curious to know what the actual installation statistics are, expressed as a ratio of DIY vs professionally installed, for the bumper covers your company sells. I'm guessing that a suggestion to the marketplace that your product is probably best "DIY only" would not make the owner of Umnitza comfortable when he reviewed the next quarterly sales figures.

Now for the good

Your product is fantastic! I worked for many years in manufacturing with molded plastics and know a quality part when I see one. The fit and finish of the bumper cover was outstanding. No rough edges, no sinks or ejection marks and well defined attachment tabs and holes. The overall shape is an excellent knock-off of the OE M-Tech part, and looks great installed. And the price is very fair.

The shipping system you have worked out with Greyhound is also great. An excellent shipping cost for a part that large. A little work could be done to sharpen the hand-off of tracking information from Greyhound to Umnitza (waiting until the next drop off of parcels to receive the previous drop off?s tracking numbers is archaic in today?s world of GPS package tracking). I know this is Greyhounds? system, not yours but I?m guessing you do a pretty fair volume with them and maybe you can push them to improve.

I ordered Xenon fog lights as an afterthought when ordering the bumper because I didn?t like the yellow look of the stock fog lamps. Once installed, I was amazed at the outstanding power and even distribution of light. Your company obviously has expertise in lighting and I will certainly look to you in the future as additional lighting needs arise for this or my other cars.

Recommendations

In summary, you need to provide additional information to save your customers many hours of running around researching and then panic ordering additional parts when the product installation does not turn out as expected. When your company was a mom-and-pop operation just starting out you likely didn?t have the resources to deal with product questions. But you appear to be large enough and sophisticated enough to take the next step.

I suggest you put a link on your web page to a PDF, talking about the foam pads and giving the customer the option of either ordering the correct foam pads or risk carving the stock foam. But at least the customer knows up-front that proper fit could be a struggle and either act accordingly during DIY installation or share that info with the body shop. You could give part numbers for the pads but then make disclaimers that parts change and the ultimate correct part is not your responsibility. Same for the brake ducts ? disclaimer of best knowledge you have, but ?customer responsibility to verify part number for correctness as other manufacturers parts change beyond your control?.

Or become a distributor for the actual BMW foam pads and brake ducts for your largest selling bumper covers. I found the foam pads selling for $28 on website but couldn?t wait for parcel delivery and ended up paying $50 each after tax at a local BMW dealer. I guess you could also manufacture the foam pads in China and offer them for sale, but I understand the liability issues involved.

I think I can speak for most of the members of this forum ? All we ask for is information up-front during the sale. We don?t mind modest expense for additional parts or some additional work or tweaking. When a custom painted part and shop labor is involved, knowing ahead of time that additional planning is required makes all the difference in how smoothly the job proceeds.

And please excuse my liberal use of sarcasm to make my points. You really do make a great product. Sharpen up your product application communications to the customer and you?ll really increase the satisfaction level of the customer experience and in turn word of mouth recommendations.

umnitza

I'm sorry you found the response less than what you expected.

Let me clear up a couple of things:
1) Mtech bumpers are ABS, M5Tech bumpers are PP
2) The research you performed for the product to have it installed we would have been happy to answer you via email. We are very quick with emails (at least when our server is operating properly like it isn't today. We can't be experts at every part, we do our best and whenever and wherever necessary we give as much information as we know at the time.
3) Only reason a forum post is so terse and direct is that we aren't always able to go into a lot of detail on the forum, but can do so on email.

You raise a lot of valid points, albeit sarcastically (as you said), and hopefully we can reconnect at a later date.