LED Angel Eyes, Wattage, and Brightness
07-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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Hey guys, sorry but I have to rant. But you can see this as an educational thread, explaining wattage vs "brightness/output" vs color temperature in Źdegree kelvin. I do this as a profession, also correct me if I'm wrong.
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
07-09-2012, 01:47 PM
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Hey guys, sorry but I have to rant. But you can see this as an educational thread, explaining wattage vs "brightness/output" vs color temperature in Źdegree kelvin. I do this as a profession, also correct me if I'm wrong.
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
07-09-2012, 04:36 PM
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Hmmm? Lol.
I don't think there's any questions here, so I didn't have anything say, hahaha.
Most of the info is correct, so nothing to really reiterate upon.
But yes, now I am thinking about it, it does make sense that the new recent 20w LED angel eye bulb might not truly be 20w. The reason is because Joe mentioned that it doesn't get too hot, which honestly, I can't imagine that being right if it is truly 20w.
If someone picks up a set, maybe they can plug it into a power supply and test it out and squash my skepticism.
I don't think there's any questions here, so I didn't have anything say, hahaha.
Most of the info is correct, so nothing to really reiterate upon.
But yes, now I am thinking about it, it does make sense that the new recent 20w LED angel eye bulb might not truly be 20w. The reason is because Joe mentioned that it doesn't get too hot, which honestly, I can't imagine that being right if it is truly 20w.
If someone picks up a set, maybe they can plug it into a power supply and test it out and squash my skepticism.
07-09-2012, 06:28 PM
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Hmmm? Lol.
I don't think there's any questions here, so I didn't have anything say, hahaha.
Most of the info is correct, so nothing to really reiterate upon.
But yes, now I am thinking about it, it does make sense that the new recent 20w LED angel eye bulb might not truly be 20w. The reason is because Joe mentioned that it doesn't get too hot, which honestly, I can't imagine that being right if it is truly 20w.
If someone picks up a set, maybe they can plug it into a power supply and test it out and squash my skepticism.
I don't think there's any questions here, so I didn't have anything say, hahaha.
Most of the info is correct, so nothing to really reiterate upon.
But yes, now I am thinking about it, it does make sense that the new recent 20w LED angel eye bulb might not truly be 20w. The reason is because Joe mentioned that it doesn't get too hot, which honestly, I can't imagine that being right if it is truly 20w.
If someone picks up a set, maybe they can plug it into a power supply and test it out and squash my skepticism.
Oh I am a lighting designer, so I have knowledge of LEDs.
Theoretically, In order for LEDs to work properly, heat dissipation is very important. I doubt any 'efficient' heat sink would fit in the headlights unless the U-Brand 20-watt has a fan inside the headlights haha
07-09-2012, 07:59 PM
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I agree with what you are saying. I'm not a light designer but I have had a long history in A/V and this has applied in many applications especially with front projectors and scene lighting,
07-09-2012, 08:31 PM
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The LCI headlights' angel eye bulb location is not as super cramped as pre-LCI, however, it still doesn't allow much space for a capable fan nor sizable heatsink (or blades, lots of them). Someone had mentioned remote heat sink somewhere else, but realistically it doesn't quite cut it, especially at 20watts of LED heat dissipation.
07-09-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by advans' timestamp='[url="tel:1341717483"
1341717483[/url]' post='1455107]
Hey guys, sorry but I have to rant. But you can see this as an educational thread, explaining wattage vs "brightness/output" vs color temperature in Źdegree kelvin. I do this as a profession, also correct me if I'm wrong.
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
Hey guys, sorry but I have to rant. But you can see this as an educational thread, explaining wattage vs "brightness/output" vs color temperature in Źdegree kelvin. I do this as a profession, also correct me if I'm wrong.
One specific vendor (no names) insisted that their LED Angel Eyes are "20-watts" super bright or whatever it is...
Wattage vs OutputWattage Consumption doesn't necessarily mean that the products are "brighter". It just really means, that the LEDs are drawing more wattage. Simple. Many of the vendors have mentioned "CREE LEDs" as a selling point on their products. I have to say, CREE is one of the top LED engine manufacturers out there along with Xicato, and maybe Philips Fortimo. LEDs are typically created with either a hot phosphor or cold phosphor coating (lets not get into this). Anyways. Basically, a 20-watt "LED" Angel eye is basically the LED chips being driven at a higher temperature, trying to maximize the light output, but then again. Please understand that LEDs DO NOT LIKE HEAT. LEDs will prematurely fail if driven at a incorrect temperature, and cause failure. What really important when considering the "LED Angel Eyes" is What the output is. Light Output is measured in Lumens. It could be a 20-watt Unit, but only a output of 500lumens, which is quite low. (think of one 4'-0" fluorescent lamp roughly giving about 2800lumens). The heat sink design is also important. LEDs hate heat, heat can cause color shifts!
Color Temperature, Color Rendering Index, Color Shift, MacAdams Ellipse Color Temperature, think of color temperature (measured in degree kelvin) as flame from a Bunsen burner. The warmer color temperatures (yellows, amber) at lower K (3500k 4500k) and higher color temperature (blues, purples) at higher K (8000k, 10000k. Sunlight is about 4300k. Standard Halogen Light bulbs at home are 2700k. Standard BMW Xenon at around 5500k. Color Temperature does infact deal with the optical vision of "brightness". anything with a higher K like 10000k will appear brighter when looking directly at, but if using it as a direction source, such as lighting the road, the ambiance will 'feel' brighter, but it will also not allow you to 'see much'. Color Rendering Index relates to color temperature in a way when it comes to LEDs. LEDs created from phosphors originally come 'blue' and the yellow, white, etc that you see is actually phosphor dyes. Color Rendering Index is the optical appearance of true colors your eye sees, which LEDs are measured in the first 8 colors, all of the pastel colors, no RGBW. A Cooler color temperature has, you could say, less red phosphors, and has a lower color rendering index, and the warmer the color temperature has a better rendering index. (think about, Yellow fogs in actual fog, you can see in, but with like white HID fogs, the fog is just being lit upon). Just and fyi, color shifts are based off the number of steps upon the MacAdam Ellipse. CREE LEDs and Xicato LEDs are probably between the 1-2 step color shift, that means the color consistency is better.
Okay, I'm getting sleepy, so heres the Abridged Version When Considering LED Angel Eyes VS HID Angel Eyes, think of HIDs (Metal Halides) Kick LED Ass anytime, anyday. CREE LED Chips have good color and output! a 10 or 12-watt LED unit is more than enough. 20-watt units are just BS. They over-drive the LED engine, you will probably use this for a shorter life span.
If confused, PM me, or post a reply!
