Engine Performance and Efficiency
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There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
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Originally Posted by Bimmer32' date='Sep 29 2005, 11:37 AM
There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
[snapback]176984[/snapback]
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Originally Posted by Bimmer32' date='Sep 29 2005, 11:37 AM
There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
I generated a tad more time. I have the Dinan throttle body and the B&B exhaust. Don't forget the substantial gains one can get if wise choices are made on tires/wheels. I have BMW style 101's and PS2s. The rolling weight savings translates into about 13 flywheel equivalent HP. I replaced my spare, jack, etc. with the BMW mobility kit--producing a flywheel equivalent gain of about 3.5 HP. If one gets in-spec tires/wheels, then you should get handing/ride improvements and better aesthetics with virtually no danger of warranty issues. For light wheels, start by checking out the 101s and the BBS wheels at Tire Rack.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
Check out this thread.
Mind Candy ...
It should give you some food for thought. If you want to discuss things in the thread, then please make you comments on the thread. It contains some interesting discussion fodder, and I wouldn't mind seeing it get back to the top.
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
I would not waste my time with a K&N. Well, OK, if I was not going to get a cold-air intake when available from Dinan, then I would get a K&N. However, I would not re-oil it myself. When it is time to clean/oil the K&N, I would throw it away (or sell it?) and buy a new one. Following this procedure, I am avoiding both over an under oiling and; thus, potential engine damage.
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The B&B always sounds great unless trying to accelerate in too high a gear 5th or 6th in the area of 1,500-1,700 RPMs. Check out the "Vrooooommm" in Realtyman's sig; listen to it on a good sound system--at least not on a laptop.
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
The usual mods should not affect gas mileage appreciable and might even increase it in theory. But, any increase probably will be more than negated by your heavier foot--which also is installed with your first mod. I actually have increased my mileage since my mods. I hold my foot up with a pulley system I've installed in my car. ~{:^)
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
As mentioned earlier, I would go with the 4.8. But, then I'd probably do the same mods that I am, and will do, to my 4.4. Given what I have done, I believe that my car is going to run at least even with a 550i.
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
There is no way to answer that question. What I have done, and what I will do in the future, is worth it to me. But, think about what's in the "Mind Candy ..." thread. And, remember that I often am (^:}.
Thank you for your inputs.
I generated a tad more time. I have the Dinan throttle body and the B&B exhaust. Don't forget the substantial gains one can get if wise choices are made on tires/wheels. I have BMW style 101's and PS2s. The rolling weight savings translates into about 13 flywheel equivalent HP. I replaced my spare, jack, etc. with the BMW mobility kit--producing a flywheel equivalent gain of about 3.5 HP. If one gets in-spec tires/wheels, then you should get handing/ride improvements and better aesthetics with virtually no danger of warranty issues. For light wheels, start by checking out the 101s and the BBS wheels at Tire Rack.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
Check out this thread.
Mind Candy ...
It should give you some food for thought. If you want to discuss things in the thread, then please make you comments on the thread. It contains some interesting discussion fodder, and I wouldn't mind seeing it get back to the top.
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
I would not waste my time with a K&N. Well, OK, if I was not going to get a cold-air intake when available from Dinan, then I would get a K&N. However, I would not re-oil it myself. When it is time to clean/oil the K&N, I would throw it away (or sell it?) and buy a new one. Following this procedure, I am avoiding both over an under oiling and; thus, potential engine damage.
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The B&B always sounds great unless trying to accelerate in too high a gear 5th or 6th in the area of 1,500-1,700 RPMs. Check out the "Vrooooommm" in Realtyman's sig; listen to it on a good sound system--at least not on a laptop.
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
The usual mods should not affect gas mileage appreciable and might even increase it in theory. But, any increase probably will be more than negated by your heavier foot--which also is installed with your first mod. I actually have increased my mileage since my mods. I hold my foot up with a pulley system I've installed in my car. ~{:^)
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
As mentioned earlier, I would go with the 4.8. But, then I'd probably do the same mods that I am, and will do, to my 4.4. Given what I have done, I believe that my car is going to run at least even with a 550i.
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
There is no way to answer that question. What I have done, and what I will do in the future, is worth it to me. But, think about what's in the "Mind Candy ..." thread. And, remember that I often am (^:}.
Thank you for your inputs.
[snapback]176984[/snapback]
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Originally Posted by Bimmer32' date='Sep 29 2005, 09:37 AM
There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
[snapback]176984[/snapback]
If you want a sport exhaust get it for the sound, not the claimed power increase...or you can burn the attached file a few dozen times to a CD and play it in your car at high volume...
![Laughing](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/laughing.gif)
sport_exhaust.mp3
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I would agree with what everyone's said. Chiptuning, air intakes, exhaust may net you a few HP, but the performance gains will be modest, and expensive. If you really want to get some extra HP, a supercharger is probably your best bet, and probably the best buy in terms of real HP per dollar.
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000. With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively. As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000. With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively. As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
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Originally Posted by wolverine' date='Sep 30 2005, 12:31 PM
I would agree with what everyone's said.? Chiptuning, air intakes, exhaust may net you a few HP, but the performance gains will be modest, and expensive.? If you really want to get some extra HP, a supercharger is probably your best bet, and probably the best buy in terms of real HP per dollar.?
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
[snapback]177415[/snapback]
The final cost per flywheel [equivalent] HP [FEHP] is $2,650 / (37.4 + 3.7) = $2,650 / about 41 = about $65?but no spare in the car.
So, by my calculation, I estimate somewhat conservatively $2,650 net cost for about 41 FEHP (or about $65 per FEHP). In making the calculation, I took Dinan's and B&B's HP claims as given and used a conservative transformation of unsprung weight into sprung weight and a more or less standard transformation of sprung weight into FEHP. If we take, $2,650 / (.85(41)), then we get about $76 per RWHP. Both are short of your $100 figure, but, on the other hand the Dinan and B&B claims may be exagerated. I tend to put a bit more faith into what Dinan says, but B&B's claim is less than what manufacturers generally claim for BMW "mufflers."
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Originally Posted by wolverine' date='Sep 30 2005, 10:31 AM
I would agree with what everyone's said.? Chiptuning, air intakes, exhaust may net you a few HP, but the performance gains will be modest, and expensive.? If you really want to get some extra HP, a supercharger is probably your best bet, and probably the best buy in terms of real HP per dollar.?
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
[snapback]177415[/snapback]
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Originally Posted by m5lover' date='Oct 2 2005, 03:22 PM
[quote name='wolverine' date='Sep 30 2005, 10:31 AM']I would agree with what everyone's said.? Chiptuning, air intakes, exhaust may net you a few HP, but the performance gains will be modest, and expensive.? If you really want to get some extra HP, a supercharger is probably your best bet, and probably the best buy in terms of real HP per dollar.?
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
With a turbo engine like my 2.7T Audi, you could get some significant HP gains with a chip for under $1000.? With BMW N/A engines it is really tough to get much HP inexpensively.? As a general guideline, including labor, figure around $100 per real HP gain (eg, $1000 will get you 10 HP).
[snapback]177415[/snapback]
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[snapback]178208[/snapback]
[/quote]No, chipping has to do with reprograming a car's computer or replacing a chip in the computer. Supercharging is forced induction. Doing a supercharger is a warranty wrecker. Supercharging is somewhat like turbocharging. Both force one's air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber under pressure--thus, more more mixture per unit of measure and more HP. Supercharging is expensive--say $10,000 for a high quality unit and installation. One might get 100 to 150 safe HP--at a cost of $100 per HP if 100 HP is gained. My numbers are just seat of the pants to give you an idea about supercharging. I could find some actual numbers later if you want. And, you could go to the Dinan site to check out some of their supercharger applications and costs. These days one is lucky to get a significant HP gain on BMWs from chipping. The chip providers are claiming 30 or 40 HP as I recall. There are current threads on this topic.
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Originally Posted by Bimmer32' date='Sep 29 2005, 10:37 AM
There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
[snapback]176984[/snapback]
The best bang for my buck was putting in 1.6 roller rockers, effectively raising the cam lift.
Remember, BMW's are already pumping out some pretty healthy HP numbers for their displacement. 325 out of 4.4 liters is very good. So, improving what is already there is going to be a difficult task at best. Remember, an engine is an air pump, the more air you can get it to process, the more HP you are going to make. Most all of the bolt on's that are available will make very modest gains, IMHO, unless you are talking about Supercharger or Turbocharger, which come with their own issues all together.
Buy the B & B or Remus for the sound, not the performance. To get real performance gains from your car, shave some significant weight, sprung and unsprung, change your cam profiles or bore out your motor to a larger dispacement or force more air in, through turbocharging or supercharging.
The old adage applies, especially to cars with Roundel, Speed Cost's Money, how fast do you want to go?
Regards, Michael
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Originally Posted by mehall2' date='Oct 2 2005, 04:50 PM
[quote name='Bimmer32' date='Sep 29 2005, 10:37 AM']There are cool air intakes, KN filters, BB Exhaust, etc.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
Based on the the total cost of parts and installation versus performance and mileage improvement, which one of these items are worth acquiring?
In other words, if the cool air intake cost about $200, how much hp or performance gain is ACTUALLY achieved at any RPM levels?
If the KN filter cost $50, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and is it still a good filter for the engine?
If the BB Exhaust is $XXX dollars installed, what is the ACTUAL performance increase and does it make your car sound like a boat?
The advertisement statement "increase UP to XX hp and XX torque" is vague at best. Will these items actual make the engine more efficient (mileage) and increase performance (when needed)?
What is really the difference between the mods versus a bigger displacement (from 4.4 to the new 4.8 enginge)?
I would like to know if it the mods are worth the ACTUAL performance increase to the engine (V8).
Thank you for your inputs.
[snapback]176984[/snapback]
The best bang for my buck was putting in 1.6 roller rockers, effectively raising the cam lift.
Remember, BMW's are already pumping out some pretty healthy HP numbers for their displacement. 325 out of 4.4 liters is very good. So, improving what is already there is going to be a difficult task at best. Remember, an engine is an air pump, the more air you can get it to process, the more HP you are going to make. Most all of the bolt on's that are available will make very modest gains, IMHO, unless you are talking about Supercharger or Turbocharger, which come with their own issues all together.
Buy the B & B or Remus for the sound, not the performance. To get real performance gains from your car, shave some significant weight, sprung and unsprung, change your cam profiles or bore out your motor to a larger dispacement or force more air in, through turbocharging or supercharging.
The old adage applies, especially to cars with Roundel, Speed Cost's Money, how fast do you want to go?
Regards, Michael
[snapback]178252[/snapback]
[/quote]Thank you, everyone, for the great information. I will look into those links and read more.
You make this forum great from your willingness to provide both technical and personal experience with the e60.
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