miguex

That is what I always thought.... the best to do is to see a race between the stock vs afe (must be done with videos, no just 1 race, few attempts) then the winner will shut up everything.

evo42

No drag racing, driver error regardless of how easy it is stomp on the gas skews results. Dyno only. Establishing baselines for multiple cars, then results with mods and posting actual graphs. Everything else is talk.

miguex

True, I am between both..... until the results. I am depending of the results. I will choose the winner whatever Stock or AFE...

Trinity Autosport

Hi Guys,

I am here to address the refund policy. Paul said he will refund what I paid for the kits, but when I got a email back from him he said he will only issue me a "STORE" credit which is WORTHLESS to me since I haven't pushed their products since this whole issue started. I was more than willing to issue a refund minus the shipping & credit card fees, but a store credit would not help me. If Paul @ AFE decides to credit my bank account or credit card then I will be more than happy to issue the refund, but at this moment I won't be able to refund any kits as I would go under...I hope everyone understands my point of view on this. Please feel free to answer back on this thread or PM me or email me. Thank you.

SoCalBimmer

Wow thats just sad...AFE, you screwed up, not the retailers/distributors, yet you are letting them take the fall for you...shame on you...

evo42

Sounds like the JB3 isn't working with the AFE stuff.

Folks, adding parts to your car doesn't guarantee they'll all work together. Show me the test were the JB3 was deleted and the AFE parts left on.

Let's not all pile on, imo, I haven't seen any valid test scenarios or results.

miguex

Reply #3 (I am passing him all the posts bothering him).... And he replies!

I have given the calculations showing that their 30" Peterson fan generates a best 28 mph wind and only if the fan is up against the grille. Under the conditions that were shown on the youtube video, where there was an 8' distance between the fan and the front grille, the breeze hitting the front grille would be more like 7-10 mph. A simple way to confirm this would be to place your hand in front of the grille next time a dyno test like this is done and compare how the "wind" feels to when you stick your hand out the window when the car is traveling at 70 mph. You will feel a big difference.

When you taking into consideration that the "breeze" from the 30" Peterson fan is likely to be a low 7-10 mph, you will have a negative impact on the performance of even a "heat-shielded" intake system with the hood closed because of the lack of air circulation in the engine compartment. You are no longer testing the vehicle in "real driving" conditions. What BMW owner would be interested in performance gains at 7-10.

If one basic foundation of an argument is shown to be suspect, then you would have to be suspicious of the other aspects of their argument. Where is the comparison with our intake system and their scoop? If their scoop works with a stock intake system, should it not work with a shielded intake system. Eloy's argument that ram effect won't work on a conical filter is incorrect. The face velocity of a 7-10 mph breeze hitting a flat panel stock filter will be no different in the face velocity of the same breeze hitting a conical filter. The dyno data that RPI only shows the detrimental effect of engine heat being absorb by our intake system in a "atypical" driving condition for a BMW of 7-10 mph. Note the difference in IAT.

You should also ask RPI why dyno data is not shown with their scoop on a totally stock filter and stock intake system with the hydrocarbon trap filter element in place. They only show with the K&N filter. Why is that? Did they by chance remove the hydrocarbon trap filter element? If you remove the hydrocarbon trap filter element, you should see a gain of 7 to 8 hp on the dyno. The reason I ask is that one of the local BMW owners who had their vehicle tested at RPI said that the HCA was removed.

RPI is not a threat to us. They don't make intake systems. However we will be a serious threat to them since we now make scoops as well as intake systems. RPI will never get a patent on their scoops as the design is not unique. Even their claim for "patented" scoops is false unless they can provide a patent number. They can claim it's "patent pending" if they in fact has filed for a patent. RPI will struggle to sell if they don't show that their scoops results in gains. We do not need to put down RPI to sell our products. That is why I don't participate in the forums because the questions I've raised here will be viewed with skepticism by RPI "friends".

Paul

RPIpower

So they are NOT really standing by their products? A store credit is NOT a refund.

lol. I guess they really dont do their homework. All the dyno graphs I have posted are done on cars with NO filter or charcoal filter change. Our designs are unique in that while all the intake companies have been designing products like what AFE makes, we decided to go another route.........and that is to induce more cold air into the already potent factory intake system. AFE saw that and decided to copy us. PERIOD. All the statements and replies are to defend their worthless products. I cant think of ANY reputable tuner shop that builds race cars that actually use ANY of AFE's intake systems. We have an E60 and yes, we have tracked the car. The car is daily driven as part of our r&d as well. Our E60 has also gone through over 50 dyno sessions throughout the spam of over a year to test and ensure our products work. Its quite different than slapping on a couple of heatshields and a cone filter, putting it on an inertia dyno with the hood open and calling it a day.

The fact is, we are a threat to companies like this. RPi is here for the performance market and when there is a product that does not work, it eventually comes around to one of our customers. When we test it, the results will be published and the information gets passed around. The threat IS there and that is why they wont issue Trinity a "real" refund. A store credit is offered so they can still sell more products without a loss. We are two different companies with different ways of doing business. For the record, yes, our patent was filed long ago and it does take time. The patent was for the function and idea of the scoops to bring in additional air into the factory intake ducting. Hopefully Paul would stop hiding behind the emails and start answering questions here where people want to know.

Paul's statements shows the dream world he really lives in. 7-8whp from removing carbon filters is completely false. We have dyno'd over 50 E60 M5s before and after carbon filter removal only to show no change or 1whp. Its already a known fact on the M5board so we dont even need to get into it more. The same result was tested by Earl from Bullet Motorsports so it is NOT just us who have seen the "no gain" on the carbon filters. The same goes with BMC filters. There is either no gain or 1-2whp if ANY by changing the filter alone. Joe from Trinity was here when I dynod a car before/after with BMC and it made no difference at all. It really looks like they are digging themselves into a deeper hole.

Those of you who know me know that I will admit when I am wrong. For instance, I recently posted that our scoops indeed do work on the Dinan intake cars (e63 and e60 m5/m6). I was told by Chris from BMS that they do work but I have been telling people for the last year that they dont. Well, until I saw it for myself, I found out that they do work. I posted a public appology and admitted that I was wrong. So, AFE, prove me wrong. Bring that powerful AFE M5 out and run it along side an RPi M5. We all know the dyno proves nothing since we dont test cars on the dyno the same way. We dont believe dynoing a car with the hood open is realistic while AFE has to dyno with the hood open to show their gains.

siu0410

And i just purchased a BMC filter from trinity............. so you're saying the filter itself is useless?

RPIpower

When have we ever dyno'd with a K&N filter???? ROFL

BTW, here are pics from Sat.

















AFE seems to have selective hearing when answering questions people want to know. Any and all questions geared towards RPi, I have answered.

- patent issue: filed last feb. for idea and function. Product first released at SEMA 06.
- fan issue: we win as we show power on what AFE thinks is 27mph.
- carbon filter and after market filter statement: false, all our graphs and dyno comparisons are done with SCOOP only. lol

So, how can we explain:

- gain in power on Iceman's car after the AFE has been on for 1 year. Previously, AFE engineer said once you get about 500 miles, it should be a gain right? Well, we put stock air box on, even with 27mph wind and it instantly gained 10whp.

- Why, when we data log the cars during a run, the AFRs are more rich than with the stock air box. Why are the IATs 1-5 degrees hotter when its a "cold air intake"?

- Before coping the scoops idea, what directs the "cold air" into the induction filter area?

- Why did you issue a head to head challenge and then not follow through?