Originally Posted by MikeBuzzsaw' post='375981' date='Jan 9 2007, 03:34 PM

"There are two parts to this: The spring and the spring damper (we call the dampers "shocks" in the US).

The spring is a simple mechanical device, in that by its design it provides so many ft lbs of resistance. Most springs are progressive, i.e. you can usually see two or more "zones" in the spring that offer various resistance. Usually a small portion of the spring is soft and provides bump softening, the rest of it takes care of the bigger bumps.

The damper -- Ill call it a shock from now on, although bugs the hell out of me -- is there to control the movement of the spring. Ever rode in someone's old caddy, or olds, and the car rolls up and down after hitting a bump like it's on waves? That's because the springs are still doing there jobs, but the shocks are shot, and are not controlling the movement of the spring. Ideally, the spring should only compress/decompress once. The shock is what controls the movement of the spring.

Jesus, this is getting long. You better make this a sticky.

The shock has two "settings"...at least. There is the rate of compression, the rate at which the shock allows the spring to compress. YOu dont want the spring to just shoot up and end up bottoming out every time you run over a twig (exaggerated example). Too stiff, and the spring doesnt give at all, and the car goes bouncing up in the air.

THe second setting is the speed at which the shock moves the spring back down to the pavement. The stiffer the shock -- to a point -- the quicker the wheel gets back down to the ground.

Okay, got all that?

Coilovers are combination shock/spring combos, most often adjustable. Do a search on the site to find them. You will see a spring on an adjustable perch on the strut, and within that spring you will see the shock (spring damper).

When looking at aftermarket coilovers, you want to compare a) the spring rate with your current spring rate and b) the compression and rebound stiffness of the shock. Too soft, and you get a smoother ride with decreased handling and increased body roll, too stiff and you're riding in a kart down city streets.

I didnt get into how the shocks physiologically work, through hydraulics and heat. Someone else can do that.

Hope this helps."
H&R do not have adjustable dampeners.

Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='375997' date='Jan 9 2007, 07:12 PM

All this time I thought the H&R coilovers have dampening adjustment like my KWs. I'm perfectly happy with the KWs cause I was able to dial in the stiffness and my ride is firm yet compliant enough for both everyday plus spirited driving.

As for changing the springs on your H&R coilovers, I thought that those springs are specifically matched to those coilovers so wouldn't changing them to something else negatively affect the set up even more?

Originally Posted by MikeBuzzsaw' post='376047' date='Jan 9 2007, 05:44 PM

I really want KW because they are stainless steal! I'm jealous you were able to get them for 1200!! :'(

Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='375997' date='Jan 9 2007, 04:12 PM

All this time I thought the H&R coilovers have dampening adjustment like my KWs. I'm perfectly happy with the KWs cause I was able to dial in the stiffness and my ride is firm yet compliant enough for both everyday plus spirited driving.

As for changing the springs on your H&R coilovers, I thought that those springs are specifically matched to those coilovers so wouldn't changing them to something else negatively affect the set up even more?

Originally Posted by heezy545i' post='376052' date='Jan 9 2007, 08:48 PM

He needs to go with the dinan suspension so he'll sell them to you for a $1K.

Originally Posted by Dan Law

May I suggest that your desire to change suspension is motivated more by the inherent deficiencies of the H&R system than by a desire for simplicity. I have worked with many different suspension systems. As expected, there is a bell curve distribution of quality amongst the various brands grouped by price. In the H&R Kit price point distribution, various brands such as Bilstein's PSS9 and KW fill the middle of the curve, TCK and GC are at the high end of the curve, and (unfortunately) placed absolutely by it's lonely on the low end is H&R.

The H&Rs are by far the worst I have encountered for a number of reasons:
1. The dampers are basic Bilstein yellows - not so bad but not PSS9 quality

2. The springs are cheap H&R units which are cut mid wind and not taperred so as to sit well in the spring perches

3. The rear ride height adjusters - both old and new designs - are very prone to cracking along the adjustment axis

4. H&R's customer AND dealer support is the worst I have encountered

5. Knowing of the issues with cracked rear ride height adjusters, H&R regularly runs out. This usually entails a 3 month backorder.

May I suggest, especially for an accomplished driver like you, that going to a ride height adjustable system is a recommended thing to do. While you are correct that you just want to set and forget the heights, I would assume you would want the system balanced. A fixed height system can NOT be balanced unless it is either custom fitted prior to fixing the ride height or shimmed to result in an equal cross distribution of weight. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a ride height adjustable system and setting the cross weights once for the life of the vehicle - assuming no hits, sagging &c.

Further I would suggest getting the Rear Upper Shock Mounts either offers - the stock mounts have failed even with stock suspension which can be quite expensive to repair. Be sure to specify a good spring rate - dependent on where you live and road conditions (TCK and Ground Control both allow spring rates to be speced AND use quality springs). Finally, DO get the rear top adjustable option as it makes changes to damping a clean 30 second job.

I can both advise you as to your specific spring rate needs and get you Ground Control products at a good price; I encourage you to contact me offline at: de_law@bellsouth.net

Dan Law
770.631.6779

Originally Posted by heezy545i' post='376052' date='Jan 9 2007, 05:48 PM

He needs to go with the dinan suspension so he'll sell them to you for a $1K.