Your BMW can be easily stolen -- BMW sloppy tolerances
12-11-2007, 09:28 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by zoooming_by' post='505823' date='Dec 12 2007, 12:56 AM
Sounds like a serious case of Paranoia to me - Why would someone keep such important documents in the car to begin with ?!
I do not think you have a case my friend ...
/z
I do not think you have a case my friend ...
/z
on second thought, you can't lock a tank from the outside.... 
Thats it, there is no vehicle which is "Theft" proof!
12-12-2007, 05:28 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by markke' post='505739' date='Dec 11 2007, 10:05 PM
OK. Valid points. The car can be easily lifted onto a tow truck and driven away.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
12-12-2007, 05:38 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by markke' post='505739' date='Dec 11 2007, 10:05 PM
OK. Valid points. The car can be easily lifted onto a tow truck and driven away.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
Ok... but how many people leave their keys on their desk at work? I know I used to when I worked in an office. Again, we're overlooking basic gaping physical security holes to zero-in on one of countless other questionable physical security holes. People don't penetrate using things that are hard to do - they use the easiest, simplest, least sexy methods. Boring stuff.
Security pen testers get farther with a screwdriver (to jimmy a door) or by littering a dozen trojan-loaded USB thumbdrives in a parking lot than with exotic cyber attacks...
12-12-2007, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HPLouis' post='505900' date='Dec 12 2007, 09:28 AM
You're not supposed to leave things like that unsecured. That's carelessness and that's how people get fired. If those were classified documents, you can get charged also. People that usually carry stuff like that know better than to keep it unsecured.
Excellent point. Any corporation these days trains its employees about securing data and devices. Not to mention most entities now do full drive encryption on laptops, etc... Even if they do get stolen, they're useless. My laptop is AES 256 encrypted - you can't circumvent it.
I can set my thumb drives to do the same to prevent data leakage... my PDA/phone as well.
12-12-2007, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HPLouis' post='505900' date='Dec 12 2007, 08:28 AM
You're not supposed to leave things like that unsecured. That's carelessness and that's how people get fired. If those were classified documents, you can get charged also. People that usually carry stuff like that know better than to keep it unsecured.
So a doctor never takes home or brings to a colleague's office a patient's file? A lawyer never transports legal documents to review at his weekend home?
I don't know about this -- can't one claim that they had a 'reasonable level' of assurance that the documents were protected? After all, BMW claims that the vehicle uses sophisticated technology in its keys and in the engine starting process...
Not paranoia. It's more curiousity.
It's a lot less 'careless' than transporting a media back-up tape in a taxi cab (that's never happened).
I'm happy to kill the thread at the expense of my own musings
12-12-2007, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by markke' post='506059' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:56 PM
How is a locked car with a (supposedly advanced) security system an unsecured environment? One may have a legitimate purpose for transporting documents or other sensitive materials (a tape back up going to a remote site, for example (which may contain credit card data from say a e-commerce based web site)).
So a doctor never takes home or brings to a colleague's office a patient's file? A lawyer never transports legal documents to review at his weekend home?
I don't know about this -- can't one claim that they had a 'reasonable level' of assurance that the documents were protected? After all, BMW claims that the vehicle uses sophisticated technology in its keys and in the engine starting process...
Not paranoia. It's more curiousity.
It's a lot less 'careless' than transporting a media back-up tape in a taxi cab (that's never happened).
I'm happy to kill the thread at the expense of my own musings
So a doctor never takes home or brings to a colleague's office a patient's file? A lawyer never transports legal documents to review at his weekend home?
I don't know about this -- can't one claim that they had a 'reasonable level' of assurance that the documents were protected? After all, BMW claims that the vehicle uses sophisticated technology in its keys and in the engine starting process...
Not paranoia. It's more curiousity.
It's a lot less 'careless' than transporting a media back-up tape in a taxi cab (that's never happened).
I'm happy to kill the thread at the expense of my own musings
When you carry sensitive documents, you're taught to take them from one secure area to another immediately. You don't stop at the golf course, you go straight to your destination and secure them in a safe or something. You definitely don't let them out of your sight.
12-12-2007, 07:33 PM
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Exactly.
You can transport sensitive materials with you in your car, but you'd be a fool to leave them in the car while you get out.
You can transport sensitive materials with you in your car, but you'd be a fool to leave them in the car while you get out.
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