Your BMW can be easily stolen -- BMW sloppy tolerances
12-11-2007, 11:02 AM
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Apparently some model years have locks with 'sloppy tolerances'. As such, the vehicle can be easily stolen.
Do we have an attorney on-board? Does this smell like a possible class action lawsuit?
I don't know about you, but I would want BMW to replace my locks with locks that perform according to more stringent tolerances in order to mitigate the automobile from being stolen using the method illustrated in the video link below.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Lockp...W-decoder-tool
Anyone?
Do we have an attorney on-board? Does this smell like a possible class action lawsuit?
I don't know about you, but I would want BMW to replace my locks with locks that perform according to more stringent tolerances in order to mitigate the automobile from being stolen using the method illustrated in the video link below.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Lockp...W-decoder-tool
Anyone?
12-11-2007, 11:12 AM
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Just to add to my note -- a CA would be the 'last course of action'. A group could approach BMW to find a suitable arrangement to solve this problem. Is there a community of 'concerned members', or am I just being overly sensitive.
We have expensive vehicles -- even with insurance covering a stolen, vehicle, we pay the premiums for many years to follow.
The ignition system has a two-mode authentication method -- doesn't it? I thought there were electronics in the key that conduct this 'secret key exchange' and that the key methodology leverages a 'changing key' approach. I thought I remember something about this technology when I bought my M3.
We have expensive vehicles -- even with insurance covering a stolen, vehicle, we pay the premiums for many years to follow.
The ignition system has a two-mode authentication method -- doesn't it? I thought there were electronics in the key that conduct this 'secret key exchange' and that the key methodology leverages a 'changing key' approach. I thought I remember something about this technology when I bought my M3.
12-11-2007, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by flipside' post='505583' date='Dec 11 2007, 03:20 PM
You may be able to get in the car..
Good luck getting it started
Good luck getting it started
I'd hide in the bushes of an owner's garage with my laptop, and scan the wireless signal when he starts his car and drive off. I'd come back some other time when the car is back, walk up to it and the doors unlock, press the Start/Stop button, and I'd drive off.
This is completely hypothetical, of course
12-11-2007, 12:00 PM
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I understand that any method of 'locking' can be circumvented through various means (of sophistication and/or technology).
The alarming note on the slide deck (as it is presented in the first part of the video), is the statement that this method 'works flawlessly' on 2004 (and I presume older) models.
So, BMW realized the vulnerability and fixed it (okay, they didn't 'fix it', but presumably they made it harder to use this method to circumvent the lock) in subsequent model years.
So, if it's a known vulnerability and BMW has attempted to resolve it (by fixing 'sloppy tolerances'), shouldn't there be some type of recourse for owner's of 2004 models and earlier?
At least it will make it harder for someone to gain access to the cabin of the vehicle (maybe not to steal the vehicle -- but consider the lurking stalker who uses it to gain entry to the vehicle for other nefarious purposes)?
The alarming note on the slide deck (as it is presented in the first part of the video), is the statement that this method 'works flawlessly' on 2004 (and I presume older) models.
So, BMW realized the vulnerability and fixed it (okay, they didn't 'fix it', but presumably they made it harder to use this method to circumvent the lock) in subsequent model years.
So, if it's a known vulnerability and BMW has attempted to resolve it (by fixing 'sloppy tolerances'), shouldn't there be some type of recourse for owner's of 2004 models and earlier?
At least it will make it harder for someone to gain access to the cabin of the vehicle (maybe not to steal the vehicle -- but consider the lurking stalker who uses it to gain entry to the vehicle for other nefarious purposes)?
12-11-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by markke' post='505602' date='Dec 11 2007, 04:00 PM
I understand that any method of 'locking' can be circumvented through various means (of sophistication and/or technology).
The alarming note on the slide deck (as it is presented in the first part of the video), is the statement that this method 'works flawlessly' on 2004 (and I presume older) models.
So, BMW realized the vulnerability and fixed it (okay, they didn't 'fix it', but presumably they made it harder to use this method to circumvent the lock) in subsequent model years.
So, if it's a known vulnerability and BMW has attempted to resolve it (by fixing 'sloppy tolerances'), shouldn't there be some type of recourse for owner's of 2004 models and earlier?
At least it will make it harder for someone to gain access to the cabin of the vehicle (maybe not to steal the vehicle -- but consider the lurking stalker who uses it to gain entry to the vehicle for other nefarious purposes)?
The alarming note on the slide deck (as it is presented in the first part of the video), is the statement that this method 'works flawlessly' on 2004 (and I presume older) models.
So, BMW realized the vulnerability and fixed it (okay, they didn't 'fix it', but presumably they made it harder to use this method to circumvent the lock) in subsequent model years.
So, if it's a known vulnerability and BMW has attempted to resolve it (by fixing 'sloppy tolerances'), shouldn't there be some type of recourse for owner's of 2004 models and earlier?
At least it will make it harder for someone to gain access to the cabin of the vehicle (maybe not to steal the vehicle -- but consider the lurking stalker who uses it to gain entry to the vehicle for other nefarious purposes)?
Why bother to make it harder to unlock? A thief can just throw a brick through the window. It has been proven that most people will walk right by someone tossing a brick through the driver window - alarm blazing... in broad daylight.
12-11-2007, 04:52 PM
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It sounds scary. It actually means that there is only 256 key combinations! Now, there is that 'adapter for spare key' in the glove compartment that can be used to start the car!
12-11-2007, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' post='505698' date='Dec 11 2007, 07:58 PM
Why bother to make it harder to unlock? A thief can just throw a brick through the window. It has been proven that most people will walk right by someone tossing a brick through the driver window - alarm blazing... in broad daylight.
Cost and complexity pretty much limits that tool to locksmiths.
12-11-2007, 06:05 PM
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OK. Valid points. The car can be easily lifted onto a tow truck and driven away.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
12-11-2007, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by markke' post='505739' date='Dec 11 2007, 09:05 PM
OK. Valid points. The car can be easily lifted onto a tow truck and driven away.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
Consider this scenario -- the executive who parks his car in a lot during work or visits a common place each day (e.g. a nautilus club, golf club, etc.) One could easily gain access to the car and retrieve important documents (assuming that the owner has a reasonable belief that the car is protected and doesn't otherwise secure the documents outside of the vehicle). And say perhaps such documents contain what might considered 'insider information' and that the company is publically traded. (consider the scenario for the lawyer (attorney-client privileged info), doctor (personal medical records), etc.)
So, the motivation isn't to cause damage to the vehicle or to steal the vehicle, but rather, to coyly 'steal' information contained in the vehicle.
Motivation = yes
Profit = yes
Alarm triggered = no
Ability to perform action undetected = yes
A different angle, I suppose.
I do not think you have a case my friend ...
/z