Water Damage to Engine With Ethanol Use
#1
Contributors
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davidson, North Carolina
Posts: 1,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: On Order as of May 6- 2007 530i Titanium Grey and Grey Leather, with Sport Package, Premium Pkg, Cold Pkg.
2006 Porsche Boxster
![Thumbs down](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif)
I have been reading a number of articles about how ethanol absorbs water at an alarming rate. This is causing engine damage at a record level. This is a large concern for marine and boaters on the water but should this also be the case for our cars that are in such situations?
Did our tree hugging politicians thing about this before acting? Not to mention that it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to one gallon of gas?
http://www.boatus.com/news/e10_0706.htm
![Confused](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Did our tree hugging politicians thing about this before acting? Not to mention that it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to one gallon of gas?
http://www.boatus.com/news/e10_0706.htm
#2
Senior Members
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle, WA Metro Area
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nickolas_g' post='373132' date='Jan 2 2007, 10:21 PM
I have been reading a number of articles about how ethanol absorbs water at an alarming rate. This is causing engine damage at a record level. This is a large concern for marine and boaters on the water but should this also be the case for our cars that are in such situations?
Did our tree hugging politicians thing about this before acting? Not to mention that it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to one gallon of gas?
http://www.boatus.com/news/e10_0706.htm
![Confused](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Did our tree hugging politicians thing about this before acting? Not to mention that it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to one gallon of gas?
http://www.boatus.com/news/e10_0706.htm
#3
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: E61 535d Apr 05. UK spec + Media Pack, Luxury Pack & Visibility Pack
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by ImolaRedM' post='373152' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:40 AM
I don't think ethanol absorbs water that isn't already in the tank.
Don't forget that Brasilians have been running cars with ethanol for about 15 years, and they do keep running.
#4
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='373177' date='Jan 3 2007, 09:24 AM
Ethanol is hygroscopic, so it will absorb moisture from the atmosphere too. Clearly more of a problem on a boat, and relatively easy to solve with a couple of valves.
Don't forget that Brasilians have been running cars with ethanol for about 15 years, and they do keep running.
Don't forget that Brasilians have been running cars with ethanol for about 15 years, and they do keep running.
ABC
#5
Senior Members
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2001 BMW330ci, Steel Gray, Black leather, Steptronic, PP, SP, PDC, Heated seats, Xenon head lights, HK, 6 disk changer, OEM alarm, OEM clears,Iice white fog lights ,Universal trasnciver, 17 inch Michelin Pilot Sport Tires
2005 530i Titanium Gray,Black leather, Nav.,HUD,PP,CWP,SP,PDC,Xenon lights,Steptronic,Logic 7 sound system,,Fold down read seats,Power shades
ON ORDER
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by aybeesea' post='373179' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:33 AM
But like LPG and Diesel, there are differences to the "driving experience".
ABC
ABC
cheers
vern
#6
Contributors
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davidson, North Carolina
Posts: 1,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: On Order as of May 6- 2007 530i Titanium Grey and Grey Leather, with Sport Package, Premium Pkg, Cold Pkg.
2006 Porsche Boxster
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Also, what is the Ethanol use/percentage in the EU or other parts of the world?
![Confused](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#7
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 7,790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: My ex-ride: EU '08 LCI 520dA. Space Grey, Sport Seats in Black Leather/Fabric Anthracite, Sport Steering Wheel, A/C with Extended Features, Hi-Fi Speakers, Cup Holders, Cruise with Braking function, Folding Rear Seats, Xenons, Park Distance Control.
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Dear nickolas_g ,
I'm glad that you have an intrest in the environment.
Please do not panic!
If the "Iranian US-gas problems" in late 70's did not learn you anything, this "small" environmental crises doesn't either.
Your, as all our E60's, are not ready for alcohol use in large amounts!
The discussions are about using a 1-3 % ethanol / 99-97 % gasoline mixture.
As we know today, the energy needed to produce ethanol is around 120% compared to mineral oils.
But the lobbiest are Arabic
and US oil companies.
The thing is to understand, that a 530i uses less fuel than a 550i,
but a 530d, which is as efficent as a 540i, could be a option...
I'm glad that you have an intrest in the environment.
Please do not panic!
If the "Iranian US-gas problems" in late 70's did not learn you anything, this "small" environmental crises doesn't either.
Your, as all our E60's, are not ready for alcohol use in large amounts!
The discussions are about using a 1-3 % ethanol / 99-97 % gasoline mixture.
As we know today, the energy needed to produce ethanol is around 120% compared to mineral oils.
But the lobbiest are Arabic
![Whistling](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/whistling.gif)
The thing is to understand, that a 530i uses less fuel than a 550i,
but a 530d, which is as efficent as a 540i, could be a option...
#8
Contributors
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davidson, North Carolina
Posts: 1,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: On Order as of May 6- 2007 530i Titanium Grey and Grey Leather, with Sport Package, Premium Pkg, Cold Pkg.
2006 Porsche Boxster
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Ricracing' post='373315' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:29 PM
Dear nickolas_g ,
Your, as all our E60's, are not ready for alcohol use in large amounts!
The discussions are about using a 1-3 % ethanol / 99-97 % gasoline mixture.
As we know today, the energy needed to produce ethanol is around 120% compared to mineral oils.
But the lobbiest are Arabic
and US oil companies.
The thing is to understand, that a 530i uses less fuel than a 550i,
but a 530d, which is as efficent as a 540i, could be a option...
Your, as all our E60's, are not ready for alcohol use in large amounts!
The discussions are about using a 1-3 % ethanol / 99-97 % gasoline mixture.
As we know today, the energy needed to produce ethanol is around 120% compared to mineral oils.
But the lobbiest are Arabic
![Whistling](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/whistling.gif)
The thing is to understand, that a 530i uses less fuel than a 550i,
but a 530d, which is as efficent as a 540i, could be a option...
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
For the ignorant comment on the 120% energy needed for production of Ethanol the University of California Berkely performed a study that found that Ethanol is going to be "bad for the environment". You can check it out at
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...5_ethanol.shtml
By the way if you were not aware. University of California Berkeley is always had a extremely liberal political view at best. They are no friends of politicians or the middle east oil folks.
![Whistling](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/whistling.gif)
#9
Senior Members
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle, WA Metro Area
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by nickolas_g' post='373318' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:58 PM
Thanks for your opinion. Yesterday I filled my tank with BP fuel that had 10%. Some have as high as 15%.
For the ignorant comment on the 120% energy needed for production of Ethanol the University of California Berkely performed a study that found that Ethanol is going to be "bad for the environment". You can check it out at
For the ignorant comment on the 120% energy needed for production of Ethanol the University of California Berkely performed a study that found that Ethanol is going to be "bad for the environment". You can check it out at
Also, as to the question of energy, I think it depends on what the source the ethanol came from. Corn isn't very efficient but the corn farmers have a strong lobby. About 90% of the ethanol in the US comes from corn. Brazil (Brasil) uses sugar cane and it's more efficient to produce. Even better might be sugar beets but I guess their lobby group isn't as powerful as the corn growers.
Ethanol has less energy than dinojuice (~35% less in ethanol) but then regular gas has been reformulated in almost every state so the differences in fuel use is small (<2%). In contrast, diesel has almost 40% more energy than gasoline.
Bottom line... ethanol can take in water... it's not likely to absorb much in a car. The fuel tanks, gas caps, and vapor recovery in modern cars are MUCH more advanced than what you find in pleasure boats. Countries like Brasil have been using ethanol for a lot longer. I don't think they even as strict as we are in the US in terms of vapor recovery and fuel caps so one might expect that they would have more problems with water than we do.
#10
Members
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arlington TX
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2004 325i
2007 Lexus G350
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by ImolaRedM' post='373326' date='Jan 3 2007, 04:26 PM
AFAIK, it's all 10% Ethanol in the US unless you're talking E85 and that's 85%. I haven't ever seen 15% offered at regular gas pumps anywhere along the east coast.
Also, as to the question of energy, I think it depends on what the source the ethanol came from. Corn isn't very efficient but the corn farmers have a strong lobby. About 90% of the ethanol in the US comes from corn. Brazil (Brasil) uses sugar cane and it's more efficient to produce. Even better might be sugar beets but I guess their lobby group isn't as powerful as the corn growers.
Ethanol has less energy than dinojuice (~35% less in ethanol) but then regular gas has been reformulated in almost every state so the differences in fuel use is small (<2%). In contrast, diesel has almost 40% more energy than gasoline.
Bottom line... ethanol can take in water... it's not likely to absorb much in a car. The fuel tanks, gas caps, and vapor recovery in modern cars are MUCH more advanced than what you find in pleasure boats. Countries like Brasil have been using ethanol for a lot longer. I don't think they even as strict as we are in the US in terms of vapor recovery and fuel caps so one might expect that they would have more problems with water than we do.
Also, as to the question of energy, I think it depends on what the source the ethanol came from. Corn isn't very efficient but the corn farmers have a strong lobby. About 90% of the ethanol in the US comes from corn. Brazil (Brasil) uses sugar cane and it's more efficient to produce. Even better might be sugar beets but I guess their lobby group isn't as powerful as the corn growers.
Ethanol has less energy than dinojuice (~35% less in ethanol) but then regular gas has been reformulated in almost every state so the differences in fuel use is small (<2%). In contrast, diesel has almost 40% more energy than gasoline.
Bottom line... ethanol can take in water... it's not likely to absorb much in a car. The fuel tanks, gas caps, and vapor recovery in modern cars are MUCH more advanced than what you find in pleasure boats. Countries like Brasil have been using ethanol for a lot longer. I don't think they even as strict as we are in the US in terms of vapor recovery and fuel caps so one might expect that they would have more problems with water than we do.
Several places on the East Coast experienced failures of fuel pumps (BMW, USPS) due to moisture mixing with ethanol at the begining of the switch-over. Some of the gas tanks at gas stations were not correctly purged from the old gas, the car warranty did not cover repairs. The problem appears to have gone away. Still, you get less MPG and less acceleration with the ethanol blend.
Ethanol has been consistently selling at higher prices than gas to the oil companies that must produce the blend and sell it to us. Another political solution to our energy problems!
I invite anyone interested to visit businessweek.com an do a search for Ed Wallace. He has devoted a lot of time studying this problem.