ADD

Can someone explain to me why we need to get software upgrades for a car?

If the car drove perfectly fine when new, and assuming we didn't make any mods to it, what changes over time that warrants a software update?

Does the software "Degrade" over time?

EBMCS03

No it doesnt degrade... but there are improvements being made from time to time to fix problems that you might or might not have...

If theres nothing wrong I would suggest you not do any upgrade. There's a higher chance that you'll encounter problems after upgrading.

Gene

kinda like windows or any other program...updates are sent out to repair "bugs"/"glitches" found after release...

but as the old saying goes..."if ain't broke..."

ADD

But windows is a fluid, networked system. You are downloading or installing "mods" or programs that all interact with the OS or whatever. A BMW is not "networked" and assuming we don't mod it or change anything, we shouldn't need updates, IMO.

The only thing I can think is that as the car ages, parts wear, accumulate deposits, etc. They update to "tweak" the software that controls these mechanical parts to adjust for the physical changes.

Speaking of which, does anyone know how many or if there are any software controls between a manual clutch and the output shaft?

My question is, when you let off the accelerator in a manual transmission BMW (e60 535), what happens both mechanically and electronically? I understand how a mechanical hydraulic clutch works, but does the drive by wire system disengage anything between the throttle and the connection of the engine/flywheel/pressure plate?

DD_545i

You are of course correct - we don't "need" updates. I just had mine updated from it's original 2004 version to the latest and greatest because I'd been reading on these forums about how the iDrive is improved in later versions, and the navigation has more usability features. The greatest reason I had for wanting an upgrade was because back in 2004 BMW didn't support MP3 CDs (it wasn't an option at that time). However, after getting the latest version of the software, it suddenly becomes an option that can easily be retrofitted (also with just software).

So 180 euros (about 240 dollars) later and I've got a nicer Navigation with the 3D perspective view, those icons on the left hand side that make things easier and quicker to change, and of course most importantly, each CD I put in the in-dash CD drive can now have about 150 MP3 files instead of 18-20 regular audio files.

Very happy with my upgrade (which wasn't needed)

bigbadbull

Seeing that you have a 535... the newer software Degrades the performance of your car to improve the waste gate rattle noises.... But generaly your car is a computer , and just like a WIndows machine or a MAC you have up dates that come out to fix "Issues".

On the N54 motored cars there have been some issues:
Waste gate rattle or pinging
SAT or Auto transmission Slam or lurch
Steering wheel stop lock issues
Aux Oil cooler missing ( on E90 sedans)
Turbo lag ( caused by BMW's soft ware update that "fixes the waste gate rattle" which then comes back) ( changes the waste gate duty cycle)
HPFP is the new biggie
LPFP
Injection issues ( caused by the fuel pump failures)

SO if your car was produced before 3/08 and has not received a software update you have the full power non laggy soft ware

If your car was produced 3/08-5/08 you may or may not have the new MDS version that "fixes" the waste gates and the car is laggy below 2500 rpm

If the car is made after 5/08 you are SOL or have the laggy soft ware which apparently is now standard on all N54's

If you have a an early N54 and got a soft ware up date (during service check or HPFP replacement) you can now get the DMS 32.1 software that returns full power and little to no lag to the car , but with "added Noise" from the waste gates and BMW won't fix them...


Also if you have the newer soft ware ( DMS 29.2 and up) BMW has put in data logging looking for unreasonable variables to actively look for Piggybacks and Flashes.

Rear my sig for more info on the N54's

ADD

I get the "update" to improve what may have been lacking in a previous model, because of improvements to technology, ala Mp3 or improved navi software. I guess my question was... why should we need software updates because of issues or problems that presented themselves after the car was placed in service. e.g. you go to the dealer to complain about a problem in the driveability of the car, and they reco a software update.

DD_545i

Oh that's even simpler. They released the car to the market after testing everything they could think of, and then some months after it hits the market and there are suddenly thousands of people using the cars, then problems start to be noticed. If the problems are being reported by enough people, then they know it's not a one-off lemon, it's actually some kind of design problem. In some cases it can mean some physical parts needed - maybe even a recall. In other cases, they find that either there was a problem (a bug) in the software that was controlling the car in a certain way and they discovered that if they tweak some things in the software, then it'll control it differently and the problem will go away. In these cases, they (BMW) send updates to their dealers describing a situation and telling them that if a customer complains, then this is what the cause was and it can be resolved by either fitting a new part or upgrading the software.

The software should be treated just like a part which can be faulty and improved upon to cure it's faults.

ADD

Some questions for you




Here's the deal. I have read through your sig threads and done A LOT of research into this niggling "issue" that I have. I've posted it here before, etc. so sorry for the repeat, but this is driving me insane. I have to take the car in for it's first scheduled oil change in 3,000, so I'll live with it till then if I can't figure something out to bring to them.

The issue is:

I've been trying to keep track of the feeling everytime I drive.
Driving down the expressway at constant speed, even with cruise set, i get this slight stumbling feeling. Not all the time, not patterned, just periodically. If I am not set on cruise, it is under light throttle. As I may be on and off the accel pedal with slight variance in pressure to maintain speed, the feeling comes on as let up on the pedal slightly. Keep in mind this feeling doesn't occur when letting up from full or partial throttle to a lower position, only from light to none. It feels to me more like a clutch or transmission or software issue than the HPFP, but who knows. Hence my question above about the software relationship to the clutch or tranny. It almost feels like when I let off the gas from slight to no pressure, the clutch disengages from the tranny slightly. Like the feeling you get with an autobox.

I babied the tranny and everything during the break-in period. I'm not a clutch rider. I'm in and I'm out. Always fully to the floor and fully out. I did try the adaptive throttle reset, and heard some electronic noises during the process, but it didn't improve the problem. Could I have a problem with the flywheel or pressure plate? I can't imagine it at 12,000 miles, but I did read a thread from a guy that had a problem and had the clutch replaced at about the same mileage. I would think that if there was a problem in production or assembly, it would have been there since new.

I put a bottle of fuel system cleaner in a couple of tanks ago. Don't think it did much. I will try a bottle of dry gas, but don't think that's it either. Under full acceleration, I get loads of torque at 1500 and it rockets off from there. Perhaps I don't know the difference since mine is a 6/08 build, but it seems plenty fast and torquey to me, for what it is.

Never a major misfire or CEL or anything out of the ordinary, but who knows, it could be a sloooooowly failing FP.

I will take it up to the dealer during the oil change, but I just want to understand what it could be in the meantime, and not get any "de"grades I don't need.

Any ideas other than the FP?

Drive by wire throttle? Software for the same?

bigbadbull

Well after having 2 HPFP failures in 45 days, I can say that you would be highly recommend to have them check out both the HPFP and the LPFP when you take it in. The injection system will throw an error one or mutiple cylinders, that is the first clue , but I think it usally only come up on a Gt-1 level dignostic.

On my car they are now replacing the entire fuel distribution system and sensors associated with it, since they can't find the problem , but the problem persists. I'm on day 8 of it being in the shop, with 2 Puma cases , and a bunch of overnight parts from Germany with no success. I have yet to hear back from them since they decided to replace the Fuel pressure sensors 2 days ago. At least I'm finally in a good Loaner

The waste gate rattle usually you will only hear at lower Rmps ( under 3k). The first time I heard it was with the windows down in a parking garage. It kinda sounds like a " Ping Ping Ping Ping....." like a bolt or ball barring dropped in a blender.

If you have that sound the first step is that they will replace the Waste gates , the sound will go away for a while , then the next step is New waste gates and new turbos.... and the sound will come back then too... I have yet to see a waste gate fail due to the pinging but some people really don't like the noise on a 50K+ car....


Since your car is a 6/08 production I can pretty firmly say you have a laggy turbo waste gates , due to the MSD v81 , which can't be updated to the non laggy software. Apparently that is the new "Standard"

I have one buddy here in town that has a 6sp 535i , he has not had any HPFP issues ( knock on wood) or clutch issues, but has had some other random thing happen, in fact I saw his car when I went to get the loner , they were sitting side to side on lofts in the work bays.... The lag is apparent on the high way if you have been accelerating and you let off the gas the RPMs drop down below 2800, and then you get back on the gas, it is like a 1.5 to 2 sec lag ( in same gear) , vs the old way was instant throw you to back seat power.