Problem with buyer. Need advice. Long story. Lots of reading
03-22-2011, 08:50 PM
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Put up the car on Autotrader with free Carfax on the listing.
So I sold my car to a buyer in Toronto. He saw the Carfax and agreed to buy it. The last week of Feb. I was going away on vacation. He told me I had to get everything worked out (paperwork) by March 1st. That left me a week before I leave for Montreal on vacation.
He called me to ask if the car was for sale. I said yes. He wanted to it for $16,000 instead of my original listing of $17,000. So I agreed. I offered to change the exhaust for a quieiter one. He never left a deposit. He told me I would have to get a service report showing the car had no outstanding recalls and a full diagnostic. Copy of the title and lien release and bill of sale filled out and sent to him. He needs to bring it to the border to get clearance for the car to cross the border.
I just recently just hit a pothole with my stock 124's and got it checked and fixed at a Geico sponsored shop. They replaced the wheels and tires. Checked the alignment and said it's fixed and ready to be picked up. Cost me $500 for deductible. A block later, the traction control light came on and Dynamic Control error came on. I had to go to shop and try to get the exhaust changed out. Couldn't get it in time because of the short schedule he left me. So I picked it up and brung it to BMW. I told my Service Advisor that he needed a service history stating that there's no recalls and a full diagnostic. Diagnostic cost me 209.95+ tax. I text him saying it'll cost him $209.95 and we can deduct it off the exhaust install. He said "That's what I was sayin. Instead of the letter they can do a service history printout that states no recalls. And then there is no need to call BMW NA." So I called my SA and told him he declined to pay for it. SA says the diagnostic of the traction control error will include checking out the car. So if he's not paying for it, I'm not going to give him the diagnostic report. I see the report and nothing says on it that the brakes were bad. While I was there at BMW. The traction control light and Dynamic Control error was on because of the pothole. I stated that needs to be fixed. SA called back and said it's a programming issue. They will clear the fault and recalibrate it. They should be done and you can pick it up the same day. That cost me $465.95 or something for diagnostic of the problem and clearing and recalibrating.
Meanwhile he said that forget the exhaust install. He'll get it done in Toronto. He asked me if there were any scratches on the car. I said yes. There is a scratch from the front driver side door to the rear fender. He asked me to forget the exhaust and spray the panels. When I picked up my car from BMW. I drove it less than a mile to my bodyshop to get the front door, rear door and rear fender painted. Cost me $800 to spray 3 panels. No error light came on. From the shop at Geico. A block, the light and error came on. From BMW, I drove a few avenues and blocks and no error came on. In my mind the problem got fixed. Now he's telling me that it's not fixed. He wants to open a dispute with Paypal and get his$16,000 back and give me the car back after 3 weeks.
Back to the story. Got it sprayed and left my car at my buddy's shop for him to get a truck to pick it up. I took my plates, registration sticker and inspection off before I leave for vacation. Now it's not drivable. I leave for vacation. He's supposed to schedule a truck to pick it up. He told me to list it on eBay to protect each other for fraud. When he saw the Autocheck associated with eBay, he saw that it says "Frame/Unibody" damage. Autocheck is very vague while Carfax says the front bumper assembly, rear bumper assembly, hood, left fender got replaced but no accident reported. So he told me to get my buddy to take pics of the undercarriage to check if the front clip got replaced. My buddy took pics and sent it to him. He states he see's oil leaking in some of the pics. He told me to fix it and we can finalize the deal. I called my buddy to fix the oil leak. Cost me $400 to change out the gasket. Also my glove compartment handle came off a long time ago. I got that fixed as well for $100.
While I'm still in Montreal, he wants me to send him the title, lien release and bill of sale to him to bring it to the border. He said he'll give me $2,000 and when the paperwork gets there, he'll pay me the full amount. I declined and want the money first. Truck never got scheduled. I'm back in NY and he said he can push the deadline to March 9th. He told me he was going to send his dealer friend with the certified check and drive it up back to Toronto.
Vadim (dealer) comes with the check and meets me at my buddy's shop. He hands me the check, we go to the bank and deposit it. He said we need to hurry up so he can leave. He needs to get to the US customs before 3:45pm to clear it to go to Canada. It's 10am. He never made it to US customs and goes through to Canada. They go to Canadian customs and stamps it. But they needed a stamp from US custom first. On the way up to Canada. The traction control light comes back on and Dynamic Control error. Buyer states that the brakes were shaking when the dealer brakes over 30mph. I go back to BMW to get a printout stating BMW diagnose it and got it fixed. I also got Geico receipts stating the checked it and emailed him and took pictures of the receipts.
So they went back to US to get a stamp. He gets the car SEIZED BY US CUSTOMS because they didn't follow laws.
The dealer plate got seized.
He calls me and tells me the situation. He ask me if I can tell US customs that I or had my friend drive it up. I declined of course. He said that if anyone calls from Canada or from the border to not pick up. Left me a voicemail telling me that.
Now he brings it to BMW and they said that the steering column needs to be replaced and wants me to pay for it. That or I refund him $16k and pickup the car. He wants to open a dispute with Paypal, eBay and call my SA to get his money or some money back. He's saying I'm f*cking around and I knew that there's a problem with the traction control error. I kept telling him if BMW says it got fixed, I assumed it got fixed. I didn't have time to drive it with all that running around trying to fixed every little problem he wants.
So I spent
$500 for deductible for Geico
$465.95 for BMW to clear and calibrate the error
$100 for the glove compartment handle
$400 for the gasket for the oil leak
$800 to spray 3 panels for the scratch
Total $2,266.40 not including the $1000 I took off the orignal listing. He's pretty much getting a 58,000 mile 04 545i for $13,700.
Now he wants me to pay. I was willing to help him out with all the repairs. (Over $2,000) Now he wants me to bend me over and put it in my ass.
Sorry for the long story. Just venting.
So I sold my car to a buyer in Toronto. He saw the Carfax and agreed to buy it. The last week of Feb. I was going away on vacation. He told me I had to get everything worked out (paperwork) by March 1st. That left me a week before I leave for Montreal on vacation.
He called me to ask if the car was for sale. I said yes. He wanted to it for $16,000 instead of my original listing of $17,000. So I agreed. I offered to change the exhaust for a quieiter one. He never left a deposit. He told me I would have to get a service report showing the car had no outstanding recalls and a full diagnostic. Copy of the title and lien release and bill of sale filled out and sent to him. He needs to bring it to the border to get clearance for the car to cross the border.
I just recently just hit a pothole with my stock 124's and got it checked and fixed at a Geico sponsored shop. They replaced the wheels and tires. Checked the alignment and said it's fixed and ready to be picked up. Cost me $500 for deductible. A block later, the traction control light came on and Dynamic Control error came on. I had to go to shop and try to get the exhaust changed out. Couldn't get it in time because of the short schedule he left me. So I picked it up and brung it to BMW. I told my Service Advisor that he needed a service history stating that there's no recalls and a full diagnostic. Diagnostic cost me 209.95+ tax. I text him saying it'll cost him $209.95 and we can deduct it off the exhaust install. He said "That's what I was sayin. Instead of the letter they can do a service history printout that states no recalls. And then there is no need to call BMW NA." So I called my SA and told him he declined to pay for it. SA says the diagnostic of the traction control error will include checking out the car. So if he's not paying for it, I'm not going to give him the diagnostic report. I see the report and nothing says on it that the brakes were bad. While I was there at BMW. The traction control light and Dynamic Control error was on because of the pothole. I stated that needs to be fixed. SA called back and said it's a programming issue. They will clear the fault and recalibrate it. They should be done and you can pick it up the same day. That cost me $465.95 or something for diagnostic of the problem and clearing and recalibrating.
Meanwhile he said that forget the exhaust install. He'll get it done in Toronto. He asked me if there were any scratches on the car. I said yes. There is a scratch from the front driver side door to the rear fender. He asked me to forget the exhaust and spray the panels. When I picked up my car from BMW. I drove it less than a mile to my bodyshop to get the front door, rear door and rear fender painted. Cost me $800 to spray 3 panels. No error light came on. From the shop at Geico. A block, the light and error came on. From BMW, I drove a few avenues and blocks and no error came on. In my mind the problem got fixed. Now he's telling me that it's not fixed. He wants to open a dispute with Paypal and get his$16,000 back and give me the car back after 3 weeks.
Back to the story. Got it sprayed and left my car at my buddy's shop for him to get a truck to pick it up. I took my plates, registration sticker and inspection off before I leave for vacation. Now it's not drivable. I leave for vacation. He's supposed to schedule a truck to pick it up. He told me to list it on eBay to protect each other for fraud. When he saw the Autocheck associated with eBay, he saw that it says "Frame/Unibody" damage. Autocheck is very vague while Carfax says the front bumper assembly, rear bumper assembly, hood, left fender got replaced but no accident reported. So he told me to get my buddy to take pics of the undercarriage to check if the front clip got replaced. My buddy took pics and sent it to him. He states he see's oil leaking in some of the pics. He told me to fix it and we can finalize the deal. I called my buddy to fix the oil leak. Cost me $400 to change out the gasket. Also my glove compartment handle came off a long time ago. I got that fixed as well for $100.
While I'm still in Montreal, he wants me to send him the title, lien release and bill of sale to him to bring it to the border. He said he'll give me $2,000 and when the paperwork gets there, he'll pay me the full amount. I declined and want the money first. Truck never got scheduled. I'm back in NY and he said he can push the deadline to March 9th. He told me he was going to send his dealer friend with the certified check and drive it up back to Toronto.
Vadim (dealer) comes with the check and meets me at my buddy's shop. He hands me the check, we go to the bank and deposit it. He said we need to hurry up so he can leave. He needs to get to the US customs before 3:45pm to clear it to go to Canada. It's 10am. He never made it to US customs and goes through to Canada. They go to Canadian customs and stamps it. But they needed a stamp from US custom first. On the way up to Canada. The traction control light comes back on and Dynamic Control error. Buyer states that the brakes were shaking when the dealer brakes over 30mph. I go back to BMW to get a printout stating BMW diagnose it and got it fixed. I also got Geico receipts stating the checked it and emailed him and took pictures of the receipts.
So they went back to US to get a stamp. He gets the car SEIZED BY US CUSTOMS because they didn't follow laws.
The dealer plate got seized.He calls me and tells me the situation. He ask me if I can tell US customs that I or had my friend drive it up. I declined of course. He said that if anyone calls from Canada or from the border to not pick up. Left me a voicemail telling me that.
Now he brings it to BMW and they said that the steering column needs to be replaced and wants me to pay for it. That or I refund him $16k and pickup the car. He wants to open a dispute with Paypal, eBay and call my SA to get his money or some money back. He's saying I'm f*cking around and I knew that there's a problem with the traction control error. I kept telling him if BMW says it got fixed, I assumed it got fixed. I didn't have time to drive it with all that running around trying to fixed every little problem he wants.
So I spent
$500 for deductible for Geico
$465.95 for BMW to clear and calibrate the error
$100 for the glove compartment handle
$400 for the gasket for the oil leak
$800 to spray 3 panels for the scratch
Total $2,266.40 not including the $1000 I took off the orignal listing. He's pretty much getting a 58,000 mile 04 545i for $13,700.
Now he wants me to pay. I was willing to help him out with all the repairs. (Over $2,000) Now he wants me to bend me over and put it in my ass.
Sorry for the long story. Just venting.
03-23-2011, 04:28 AM
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If you performed according to contract (the things he requested of you), the deal is done. You can't control what happens to the vehicle after he or his representative takes possession. This is the nature of private car sales. If he has issues with the work performed by the US BMW Center or GEICO, he can take it up with them with the documentation you provided with the vehicle. You can help facilitate communications between the buyer and BMW Center and GEICO, but you are certainly not obligated to.
You did get a signed bill of sale from the buyer, right? That should be your protection as a seller. He or the Canadian BMW Center could be "jacking around" for all you know. The car is his, problems and all. You took care of the known problems and his requests. A vehicle do not become problem-free as a result of ownership change.
You did get a signed bill of sale from the buyer, right? That should be your protection as a seller. He or the Canadian BMW Center could be "jacking around" for all you know. The car is his, problems and all. You took care of the known problems and his requests. A vehicle do not become problem-free as a result of ownership change.
03-23-2011, 07:48 AM
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Basically the facts are: You went waaaaaaay above and beyond for this fool, doing all those things to make sure he was happy was a very good gesture (remind me to buy a car from you next time, LOL). He took possession of the car in a private sale with no explicit or implied warranties, which is normal in private sales. Essentially he's screwed, you have all the paperwork to prove the condition of the car prior to sale. How do you know his friend didn't damage the car? Or that the car was damaged when seized by Customs for HIM not following the laws?
Far as I can see you should just fight any Paypal dispute this guy files and be on your merry way. In 2 words: Fuck him!!! You did everything you could, the car is in his possession now and therefore, his responsibility.
Far as I can see you should just fight any Paypal dispute this guy files and be on your merry way. In 2 words: Fuck him!!! You did everything you could, the car is in his possession now and therefore, his responsibility.
03-23-2011, 07:59 AM
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From what I read, you acted in good faith. When he/the person took delivery, he should've taken the time to inspect the vehicle. He didn't do a good job because he was rushing to get back. That's his fault. All your paperwork and money spent should be the proof and evidence to substantiate your position. It sucks that you have to deal with people like that. Good Luck!!
03-23-2011, 08:46 AM
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With the documentation that you have of the repairs and the understanding that there is no implied warranties with private sales(as is) . Clearly by your actions, you acted in good faith with the sale. With private sales, the buyer is not held to the higher standards as a dealer.
03-23-2011, 08:50 AM
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Thanks everyone. I just re-read his text. He said that his BMW said "Probably the steering rack needs to be replaced." So it looks like a assumption. I told him to email me the service report stating the steering rack needs replacing. Neither Geico or my BMW said anything about the steering rack. Looks like he's trying to get money out of me. I told him yesterday to open a dispute, contact eBay, my SA at BMW or file a complaint anywhere he pleases. I got documents and receipts. My guess is he's trying to get some money to offset the fines and fees when the car got seized. Don't think there can be a dispute with Paypal. We didn't even go through Paypal. He didn't even leave a deposit with Paypal. So for this whole process, I didn't even get a deposit from him prior to selling the car.
When he called the first time. I heard his kids in the background. I told him my exhaust was loud and offered to swap the exhaust for a quieter one. I was nice enough to spend $200-300 to swap the muffler. That's after I agreed to take $1k off the listing.
When he called the first time. I heard his kids in the background. I told him my exhaust was loud and offered to swap the exhaust for a quieter one. I was nice enough to spend $200-300 to swap the muffler. That's after I agreed to take $1k off the listing.
03-23-2011, 09:05 AM
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WOW GUYS THIS SUCKS I HOPE IT ALL GET WORKED OUT AND YES VHKONG IS RIGHT AFTER A DEAL IS DONE NOTHING CAN BE DONE NO WARRANTY NOTHING I BOUGHT MY E55 AND THE GUY SAID EVERYTHING WAS DONE PAPERWORK EVERYTHING THEN MY FUEL PUMP BLOWS AND THE CAR WOULDNT START SO I ASK HIM AND THERE NOTHING I CAN DO TO ASK HIM BECAUSE HES NOT A DEALER THATS THE RISK OF PRIVATE SALE,(SORRY FOR CAPS IM AT WORK)
03-23-2011, 09:05 AM
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Wow thats a long story, now that I read it I feel obligated to post...although you did right by going above and beyond to fix it all..YOUR CRAZY! Surely you werent hurting to sell the car that bad that you couldnt wait a week, post it on craigslist and sell it as is? No way Id go through all that BS and pay out of pocket $2k to sell a car. While it is extremely nice to be the buyer in this situation I really think you put yourself way too far out there for the sale...
03-23-2011, 09:17 AM
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Wow thats a long story, now that I read it I feel obligated to post...although you did right by going above and beyond to fix it all..YOUR CRAZY! Surely you werent hurting to sell the car that bad that you couldnt wait a week, post it on craigslist and sell it as is? No way Id go through all that BS and pay out of pocket $2k to sell a car. While it is extremely nice to be the buyer in this situation I really think you put yourself way too far out there for the sale...
03-23-2011, 09:46 AM
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My Ride: 2008 535i LCI with sports/premium package, Sports trans with paddle shifters, CF emblems, JB4 Software, Dinan Exhaust, Navigation, M5Tech body kit, Carbon wrap interrior trim and CIC Controller.
I say too that you went over the top for this guy, especially with not having a deposit in hand! The sad part is that ebay tends to lean more towards the buyer than the seller. I would advise that if you have any lose change sitting in you're paypal account that you might want to pull it out. Once a claim is initiated and then escalated by the buyer paypal will freeze any funds in your account until this is resolved... I don't think they will hit your credit card if your account bal is zero though. Just something to be aware of...