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Poor fuel economy and some errors

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Poor fuel economy and some errors

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Old 10-31-2018, 03:55 AM
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Default Poor fuel economy and some errors

Hello, I just trade an Infiniti FX35 for a BMW 525d auto 2005. So I'm here with some problems that I can't solve. The most important problem for now it's my fuel economy, I got around 22-24l/100km or 13mpg, even with my infiniti I had better numbers. First thing I've made a full maintenance, engine and transmission, after that I've cleared the intake manifold, throttle body, egr. I made a diagnose with a Bosch KTS 540, and that engineer told me I have a bad injector with a value around 1, and a bad maf sensor. After I've changed the maf sensor, thermostat, new vacuum pump nothing changed. I have a lag on acceleration at 2000-3000rpm, the car is very slow on that range even with kickdown in sport mode. My last trip was at my local dealership, but they didn't get any errors for my problem so they told me to let the car a couple of days to work on it, but I don't trust them because they charge for nothing, and everything should be replaced in their opinion. At this point I don't have any ideas what to do so I'm asking for help here, first thing was to use the search button but it didn't work well, second was to talk with owners in my country but nothing helped.

Second thing: I've bought a delphi ds150, because I work at HaynesPro, the company that provide them the software, I've got an updated software with license and test my car daily to see if I have new errors. This car have lots of errors but I want to keep it and repair. So after the fuel economy, I have some pdc failure, heated seats doesn't work, cruise control doesn't work. So that's what I get when I diagnose my car:

4020 - Exhaust temperature sensor before particulate filter ,bank 1; signal - Intermittent

4477 - Intelligent battery sensor - Intermittent( I know i don't have pe IBS sensor)

44E2 - Generator - Intermittent (doesn't matter works good, maybe a communication error)

4C08 - Message: (STAT_ARS, 0x1AC) , signals in message not valid - Intermittent

45F8 - Unknown fault code

4448 - Unknown fault code

The last 3 errors I don't know exactly what they are because we don't have the codes in workshop data, I've tryed to search on our database.

9E33 - Distance sensor line, rear left - Short circuit to ground - Permanent

9E36 - Distance sensor line, rear center right - Short circuit to ground - Permanent

9E37 - Distance sensor line, front left - Short circuit to ground - Intermittent

9E39 - Distance sensor line, front center left - Short circuit to ground - Permanent

9E3A - Distance sensor line, front center right - Short circuit to ground - Intermittent

9E38 - Distance sensor line, front right - Short circuit to ground - Permanent


This was on my delphi, on bosch I got 2 bad sensors, I've changed them and nothing happen, maybe it's a pdc module failure.


For my heated seats I don't get any error, the buttons doesn't work, nothing happens, I checked all the fuses in the car and everything it's ok, here I don't have any idea what to do.

Cruise control doesn't work at all, nothing happen when i use the joystick, and I don't get any errors for him to. But what I got on a romanian forum for 45f8 should be something with ACC(my car doesn't have ACC, it's standard cruise control)

I've checked the oficial service site because I have license so all the options that doesn't work now aren't retrofits or fake buttons because I should have them.
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:56 AM
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Hi Jackelro,

I'm kind of new round here - and quite new to E60/E61 ownership, so am not sure how helpful I can be... but, as no one else has stepped forward I will offer a few bits of advice.

These cars are not as fuel efficient as the more modern models - however, your E60 should give MUCH BETTER mileage than you're seeing (my own 525d does around 40Mpg in mixed driving).
So, there is definitely something wrong - and fairly drastically wrong with your car. Hopefully it can be found and fixed...
It does sound so bad that I'd almost expect it to be blowing black smoke out of the exhaust, running very badly and throwing errors on the dashboard...
if it's not doing that then it might be a fairly simple fix - if you can find what's at fault.

Using CAN tools to read error codes is a good start (as is doing a service and clean up of the manifolds) - but, it's not everything... Your problem may be more "mechanical".
So, do check the obvious - are there any boost leaks anywhere? (like a split in your intercooler etc).

then, from the info provided I'd go straight to the MAF - if this is faulty the ECU can't tell how much air if flowing through the engine - and give it the right amount of fuel.
The maf is a fairly fragile thing - easy to damage it by accident when cleaning the egr/manifolds - maybe yours is damaged and needs replacing?

Next I'd go for the injector.. if it's not working right the ECU can't fuel the engine properly even after the MAF is fixed.

Now for the more difficult stuff!

Looking at the errors it seems you *might* have some sort of problem(s) on the CAN bus(es) too?
Something seems to be interfering with the messaging sometimes.
If true this will really mess things up until it's found and fixed. It could be a faulty module, a damaged wire or faulty connector. Finding and fixing it could be a real pain but, could be worthwhile.

Finally - and this is a real guess on my behalf - it's possible that with all the miss-fueling (caused by maf and injector faults) that your cat/dpf is partially blocked causing a restriction in the exhaust.
I'm not familiar with the BMW system but, I'd expect it to throw errors on the CAN bus if it is blocked - UNLESS someone has previously done a "DPF delete" in the ecu?

hope this has been helpful and good luck

Mark
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:40 AM
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My DPF was deleted "mechanical" by me because the car couldn't make self regen, I've tryed with a force regen with carly and delphi but nothing happened. After DPF delete my car isn't blowing black smoke, my exhaust was very clean(because I have straight pipe after cat now, but the pipe is clean aswell). So my soft is reading the DPF for the moment but I'm sure this isn't the problem because I had this fuel consumption in the past when everything was on the car. MAF as i said it's new and now is reading good values, real value it's around nominal value now, but again nothing changed same lag between 2000-3000rpm and bad fuel economy. I've checked for vacuum leaks but everything was fine. So I have to do two more things, changing the bad injector and remaping the car with egr off and dpf off.
The problem is I don't have any errors on ecu, so at a first look you will say the car runs great, but something is wrong and I don't know where to start from.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:31 AM
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Hmm ok.

So, DPF is removed already (but, not coded out.... I thought/assumed that would throw lots of errors if removed but, not coded out. that's interesting in itself, it might be part of the problem, maybe?).
and the MAF is now good - which is a good start.
And you don't have black smoke - that's also a very good thing. (and probably means you don't have a split in the intercooler etc).

But, I'm puzzled to know where all the fuel is going...So - let's check a couple of obvious things next.
1/ Is the fuel leaking someplace external? (you can usually smell if it is)
2/ Is the (excess) fuel ending up in the oil - this would be bad if it continues too long. Check the dipstick level - is it (too) high? Does your oil stink of diesel?
(if your bad injector is dribbling rather than spraying the fuel will "wash" down the cylinder walls and end up mixing with your oil rather than burning)

Next - you "deleted" the egr...
Did you code it out too? If not, did you also remove the "throttle plate" (i'm not sure what BMW call it :-) in the inlet tract?
(It's like a petrol fly-by-wire throttle body - it sits in the inlet tract near where the egr pipe fed into the inlet)
If this is still in place (and active) it might be closing to restrict the inlet airflow at some points in the load/speed range.
(those points where the egr system would have fed extra gas into the inlet. and now that isn't, it's not and you don't have enough air mass at these points, like maybe 2k to 3k at full moo?).

Also, you need to check the turbo side too.
Make sure you aren't leaking exhaust pressure ahead of the turbo - If you deleted the egr make sure you blocked up the egr take off point properly.
If it is leaking there you should be able to smell burned diesel fumes (but, not always - if it only leaks at speed and under load).
And while you're down in that area - check the turbo.
Check that the VNT (or wastegate depending on the model year) is functioning as it should.
Is the actuator arm free to move?
(actually I never tried moving a BMW mounted vnt by hand as it's driven by a motor module and I'm not sure if it's safe to force it! take care here!)

Please remember I'm not that familiar with BMs - I may be giving you bad info - someone else may be along in a minute who is better qualified to help you!

Mark
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:50 AM
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and another thing...

One of your errors is "44E2 - Generator - Intermittent".
You said it's ok... but, I'd advise you not to dismiss this as an error - double check it.

Most regulators (in the alternator) don't fail all at once. They start going bad slowly - working OK most of the time then occasionally going under/over voltage for a bit then flipping back to normal.
Your battery will help the electrics survive this - up to a point (and hide the problem from you) - but, only up to a point - and at risk of damaging the battery and more.

More to the point all the modules on the buses will see occasional voltage sags/spikes - which makes them all a bit haywire...
MAYBE this is the cause of the "Intermittent" codes you have read?

So check this too.

KR
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:59 AM
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Ok, sorry for a late reply. EGR isn't deleted for the moment, but I think this is one of the problem so it's easier and cheaper to delete instead of replace. Because I have another project car that eats alot of money so I don't need another one. In this weekend I'm gonna look inside the engine to look for clues. But I don't have any fuel leaks and the oil level it's ok so no fuel in oil that's for sure. Today I will change the injector and I will watch for changes.

I've made a smooth running measurement test with my delphi and theese are are results:
Cyl1: 1.4mg
Cyl2: -1.0
Cyl3: -0.5
Cyl4: 1.3
Cyl5: -.02
Cyl6: -1.5
But I have no clue what this mean.
And about the generator, someone told me could be an error from my battery because the car doesn't have the IBS for the moment, I think it was taken after the accident. Because from what I see was a front bad accident.

Last edited by jackelro; 11-02-2018 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:31 AM
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Hi - lot's of answers - trying to separate them...

>Because I have another project car that eats alot of money so I don't need another one.
Yep - I know how that feels...

>I don't have any fuel leaks and the oil level it's ok so no fuel in oil that's for sure.
Great

>In this weekend I'm gonna look inside the engine to look for clues.
anything turn up?

>Today I will change the injector and I will watch for changes.
I *think* you might have to code the new injector into the DDE (ECU), for it to work properly?
Oh and make sure you use a new copper washer - a used washer will not seal properly.
Let us know how it went

> I've made a smooth running measurement test with my delphi and theese are are results:
> Cyl1: 1.4mg
> Cyl2: -1.0
> Cyl3: -0.5
> Cyl4: 1.3
> Cyl5: -.02
> Cyl6: -1.5
> But I have no clue what this mean.

I didn't have much either (remember I'm new round here...). So, I just googled it and have learned...

Apparently the test measures the variation in engine rotation speed when each cylinder fires at tickover.
This shows how even (or not) the firing strokes are per cylinder. Which is nice.
I *think* the ecu (DDE) then tries to alter (trim) each cylinder to achieve an even idle/running - which it must store somewhere.
These trims can be cleared (if you know how) - and then (I guess) the ecu will relearn.

I also read that "For a smooth running test, the numbers should be as close to zero as possible" but, struggled to find much good info on what is a good number...
FWIW I did find someone who said "1.2 is much to high"... and you have three cylinders over that figure.

ANYONE know what are good numbers for the M57 Diesels? While we wait, here's a list of things that *could* make a diesel uneven.

1/ Uneven fuel injection - could be problems with injectors (old/worn/faulty) or the wiring/and plumbing.
2/ Uneven compression - maybe you have leaky rings? valves that are not seating/sealing? a leaking injector seal, or possibly some there's carbon build up inside the combustion chambers (some more than others).
3/ Uneven air distribution - unlikely (esp as you cleaned the manifold)

I don't have enough experience with these motors to make a call on which it is - but, I have tried to put them in the order I guess is most likely.
To be honest - I don;t even know enough to know if it's very bad or not -

We need a little extra help here - someone who can say for sure what is normal for the smooth running values.

>And about the generator, someone told me could be an error from my battery because the car doesn't have the IBS for the moment, I think it was taken after the accident. Because from what I see was a front bad accident.

I've no clue what IBS means (I guess Intelligent Battery System). In the days before IBS (irritable bowel syndrome?) a bad battery was easy to find - because the car wouldn't start ;-)

It is guess *possible* that the IBS (internet banking solution?) or lack of, would cause electrical problems - like if the IBS (Infeasible Ballroom Staggering?) feeds into the control of the alternator output.
Without that the voltage may not be well controlled - and that *could* make everything electronic a bit unreliable.

Good luck.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:37 AM
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Yes, IBS it's intelligent battery sensor, and I don't have it, but I've checked the generator, and baterry aswell, so for the moment this isn't a real problem. Today I'm going to change one injector, because I've tested them with a good tool, not a clone as mine, and I have only one bad injector with a value around 1. After this I will come back with fresh news.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:49 AM
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While we wait for an update - here's a bit more general info that may be of use to compare your car with

My car (525d Manual from 2006) I don;t think it's been mapped or fiddled with. It runs the slightly older turbo (with a wastegate - vacuum controlled not VNT).
The does around 40Mpg on mixed driving (motorways at - ahem 70Mph, fast country roads and a bit of town - very few short journeys)

If I drive with a heavy right foot I can reduce it a bit. On short journeys and cold starts (and town driving) it delivers a lot less miles per gallon.

Mine pulls really well from 2000rpm upwards.
I've a cheap ELM327 I use with Torque Lite - It reads around 17PSI of boost from 2000RPM upwards (and foot to floor)
I can't recall the max MAF reading. I can get that if you want it. It occurs around 3500 at max Boost.

Check your getting good boost - especially where you say it feels flat.

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Old 11-08-2018, 10:21 PM
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I'm back, I've changed the bad injector and made a stage 1 with dpf off and egr off. For the moment I have a better fuel economy, does around 17-18l/100km. Tonight I will see how my car stands with other cars because friday night we race. Checked my MAF too and the results are good, but someone told me even the maf sensor it's new he can be a bad one too. All I need it's to repair the turbo( I don't know for sure if it needs that, but I'm going to do it anyway for me to sleep well). Mine now pulls well too from 2000 and the real deal it's over 3000, but for 210 hp and 400NM should pull better, because my friend have the same car and I know how should pull, we have the same chiptuning.
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