Faulty Clutch Question
08-22-2009, 06:46 PM
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My Ride: 2007 530i, white/black manual, sports package, nav, PDC, etc.
(crosspost from bimmerfest)
The clutch in my 2007 530i has developed a chatter most noticeable when pulling from a stop. Clutch take up is not smooth. In addition, the transmission feels notchy. The car was not like this when new.
On Friday, I took the shop foreman from my local BMW dealer for a drive and he noticed the clutch problem. He suggested that it might be due to wear (I have 16k miles, which isn't much -- I've never burned a clutch in my life).
Next Tuesday, the car is going in for a more thorough inspection. The dealer is going to remove the transmission, inspect the clutch and report their findings to BMW. Under the best of scenarios, they'll replace it at BMW's expense under warranty or the full maintenance agreement. Under a less favorable outcome, they'll deem it excessive wear or abuse and deny coverage.
In an effort to be prepared, what can cause a clutch to chatter (it doesn't slip at all), and what might cause the shifting to become notchy (are they related)? Can a faulty part be the culprit? Can operator error cause this to happen?
If BMW's decision is adverse, how do I validate that their findings are correct and fair?
Thank you,
Robert A
The clutch in my 2007 530i has developed a chatter most noticeable when pulling from a stop. Clutch take up is not smooth. In addition, the transmission feels notchy. The car was not like this when new.
On Friday, I took the shop foreman from my local BMW dealer for a drive and he noticed the clutch problem. He suggested that it might be due to wear (I have 16k miles, which isn't much -- I've never burned a clutch in my life).
Next Tuesday, the car is going in for a more thorough inspection. The dealer is going to remove the transmission, inspect the clutch and report their findings to BMW. Under the best of scenarios, they'll replace it at BMW's expense under warranty or the full maintenance agreement. Under a less favorable outcome, they'll deem it excessive wear or abuse and deny coverage.
In an effort to be prepared, what can cause a clutch to chatter (it doesn't slip at all), and what might cause the shifting to become notchy (are they related)? Can a faulty part be the culprit? Can operator error cause this to happen?
If BMW's decision is adverse, how do I validate that their findings are correct and fair?
Thank you,
Robert A
08-22-2009, 07:48 PM
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jeez, my 2007 530 has 105,000 and no clutch problems. Sorry to hear you're having problems. I have no idea how you can run out at clutch with only 16k miles with the 530. 550, maybe 
08-22-2009, 09:00 PM
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My Ride: 2007 530i, white/black manual, sports package, nav, PDC, etc.
Don't think I did, either. I've been driving MT BMWs since 1983 (and MT cars since 1974) and have never burned a clutch.
I wish I knew what caused clutch chatter, generally speaking. The only thing that comes to mind is that the throw out bearing or the pressure plate isn't causing the clutch to properly disengage -- hence the notchiness. Interestingly, I thought this was one of the smoothest, most integrated-feeling clutches since my E36.
I wish I knew what caused clutch chatter, generally speaking. The only thing that comes to mind is that the throw out bearing or the pressure plate isn't causing the clutch to properly disengage -- hence the notchiness. Interestingly, I thought this was one of the smoothest, most integrated-feeling clutches since my E36.
Originally Posted by AP Sales' post='985785' date='Aug 22 2009, 08:48 PM
jeez, my 2007 530 has 105,000 and no clutch problems. Sorry to hear you're having problems. I have no idea how you can run out at clutch with only 16k miles with the 530. 550, maybe
08-23-2009, 06:47 AM
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My car is similar to yours (07 530i 6-speed). I've had some issues with my clutch pedal in the past around the 15K-18K mile mark. It felt like there was something wrong with the pedal's spring action - and I could hear some noises on uptake/depression of the pedal while the engine was off.
The first dealer approach was to do what you described, which is to remove the entire transmission and take a look underneath, which I thought was strange. That didn't fix the problem. When I brought the car back, they took another look. Here's the quick record:
Try #1:
Verified customer complaint (clutch pedal notchiness and clicking)... found that clutch release bearing and guide sleeve for clutch release bearing making noise. Removed transmission from vehicle. Removed and replaced clutch release bearing and guide sleeve. Reinstalled transmission using new aluminum bolts and road tested vehicle. Verified that clicking noise is no longer present.
Try #2:
"Found creaking noise coming from pivot at pedal and clutch master cylinder. Removed master cylinder from clutch pedal and verified noise is gone. Reinstalled clutch pedal master cylinder and lubricated pivot pin. Verified noise is no longer present."
My clutch pedal has been fine since. Long story short - your problem may not be super serious.
The first dealer approach was to do what you described, which is to remove the entire transmission and take a look underneath, which I thought was strange. That didn't fix the problem. When I brought the car back, they took another look. Here's the quick record:
Try #1:
Verified customer complaint (clutch pedal notchiness and clicking)... found that clutch release bearing and guide sleeve for clutch release bearing making noise. Removed transmission from vehicle. Removed and replaced clutch release bearing and guide sleeve. Reinstalled transmission using new aluminum bolts and road tested vehicle. Verified that clicking noise is no longer present.
Try #2:
"Found creaking noise coming from pivot at pedal and clutch master cylinder. Removed master cylinder from clutch pedal and verified noise is gone. Reinstalled clutch pedal master cylinder and lubricated pivot pin. Verified noise is no longer present."
My clutch pedal has been fine since. Long story short - your problem may not be super serious.
08-23-2009, 07:08 AM
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My Ride: 2007 530i, white/black manual, sports package, nav, PDC, etc.
There is definitely something amiss in the clutch take up, however I'm curious if the cause is another faulty part. I still wonder what causes clutch to chatter in the engagement process -- is it warpage due to heat, or something the else.
Originally Posted by chris.y' post='986103' date='Aug 23 2009, 07:47 AM
My car is similar to yours (07 530i 6-speed). I've had some issues with my clutch pedal in the past around the 15K-18K mile mark. It felt like there was something wrong with the pedal's spring action - and I could hear some noises on uptake/depression of the pedal while the engine was off.
The first dealer approach was to do what you described, which is to remove the entire transmission and take a look underneath, which I thought was strange. That didn't fix the problem. When I brought the car back, they took another look. Here's the quick record:
Try #1:
Verified customer complaint (clutch pedal notchiness and clicking)... found that clutch release bearing and guide sleeve for clutch release bearing making noise. Removed transmission from vehicle. Removed and replaced clutch release bearing and guide sleeve. Reinstalled transmission using new aluminum bolts and road tested vehicle. Verified that clicking noise is no longer present.
Try #2:
"Found creaking noise coming from pivot at pedal and clutch master cylinder. Removed master cylinder from clutch pedal and verified noise is gone. Reinstalled clutch pedal master cylinder and lubricated pivot pin. Verified noise is no longer present."
My clutch pedal has been fine since. Long story short - your problem may not be super serious.
The first dealer approach was to do what you described, which is to remove the entire transmission and take a look underneath, which I thought was strange. That didn't fix the problem. When I brought the car back, they took another look. Here's the quick record:
Try #1:
Verified customer complaint (clutch pedal notchiness and clicking)... found that clutch release bearing and guide sleeve for clutch release bearing making noise. Removed transmission from vehicle. Removed and replaced clutch release bearing and guide sleeve. Reinstalled transmission using new aluminum bolts and road tested vehicle. Verified that clicking noise is no longer present.
Try #2:
"Found creaking noise coming from pivot at pedal and clutch master cylinder. Removed master cylinder from clutch pedal and verified noise is gone. Reinstalled clutch pedal master cylinder and lubricated pivot pin. Verified noise is no longer present."
My clutch pedal has been fine since. Long story short - your problem may not be super serious.
08-23-2009, 08:12 AM
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My Ride: 2010 535i M Sport 6MT
Model Year: 2010
My CPO 2004 530i 6-speed clutch was slipping at high engine RPMs when engaged. BMW Center found worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel. This was at 67,000 miles. I had replaced the CDV/lock valve at about 45,000 miles, but I guess it was too late. Vehicle is my daily driver with no track (for me).
Some possible causes for accelerated clutch wear:
- hard acceleration with the OEM CDV (allows excessive clutch slippage, but protects the rest of drive-train)
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
My service advisor told me about a customer who took out a Z4 6-speed service loaner. She claimed she could drive a manual but called about 20 miles away (this was in the city) that the "transmission had malfunctioned." Diagnosis was worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel (turned blue and cracked from heat).
Someone here may posted a story about a long distance purchase of a 550i 6-speed. The transport driver delivered vehicle with a "hot odor." You guessed it, ditto on the diagnosis. It seems like it does not take much ruin these clutch discs and flywheels. Perhaps these components are truly "light-weight" to save weight and to improve fuel economy.
The chatter you are experiencing can be a sign of a warped disc from overheating.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
Some possible causes for accelerated clutch wear:
- hard acceleration with the OEM CDV (allows excessive clutch slippage, but protects the rest of drive-train)
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
My service advisor told me about a customer who took out a Z4 6-speed service loaner. She claimed she could drive a manual but called about 20 miles away (this was in the city) that the "transmission had malfunctioned." Diagnosis was worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel (turned blue and cracked from heat).
Someone here may posted a story about a long distance purchase of a 550i 6-speed. The transport driver delivered vehicle with a "hot odor." You guessed it, ditto on the diagnosis. It seems like it does not take much ruin these clutch discs and flywheels. Perhaps these components are truly "light-weight" to save weight and to improve fuel economy.
The chatter you are experiencing can be a sign of a warped disc from overheating.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
08-23-2009, 10:30 AM
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My Ride: 2007 530i, white/black manual, sports package, nav, PDC, etc.
- hard acceleration with the OEM CDV (allows excessive clutch slippage, but protects the rest of drive-train).
I have rarely if ever accelerated hard, and have only done so after the clutch was fully engaged (for instance, accelerating to move into freeway traffic).
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
No, unless I'm already rolling, or am on a declining road surface where first gear just isn't warranted.
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
I NEVER hold the vehicle in gear.
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
35 years experience driving MT cars. I've never burned or worn out a clutch. Most of my cars have been owned for 5 to 9 years, and all have been MT cars.
I have rarely if ever accelerated hard, and have only done so after the clutch was fully engaged (for instance, accelerating to move into freeway traffic).
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
No, unless I'm already rolling, or am on a declining road surface where first gear just isn't warranted.
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
I NEVER hold the vehicle in gear.
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
35 years experience driving MT cars. I've never burned or worn out a clutch. Most of my cars have been owned for 5 to 9 years, and all have been MT cars.
Originally Posted by vkhong' post='986140' date='Aug 23 2009, 09:12 AM
My CPO 2004 530i 6-speed clutch was slipping at high engine RPMs when engaged. BMW Center found worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel. This was at 67,000 miles. I had replaced the CDV/lock valve at about 45,000 miles, but I guess it was too late. Vehicle is my daily driver with no track (for me).
Some possible causes for accelerated clutch wear:
- hard acceleration with the OEM CDV (allows excessive clutch slippage, but protects the rest of drive-train)
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
My service advisor told me about a customer who took out a Z4 6-speed service loaner. She claimed she could drive a manual but called about 20 miles away (this was in the city) that the "transmission had malfunctioned." Diagnosis was worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel (turned blue and cracked from heat).
Someone here may posted a story about a long distance purchase of a 550i 6-speed. The transport driver delivered vehicle with a "hot odor." You guessed it, ditto on the diagnosis. It seems like it does not take much ruin these clutch discs and flywheels. Perhaps these components are truly "light-weight" to save weight and to improve fuel economy.
The chatter you are experiencing can be a sign of a warped disc from overheating.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
Some possible causes for accelerated clutch wear:
- hard acceleration with the OEM CDV (allows excessive clutch slippage, but protects the rest of drive-train)
- starting in 2nd gear frequently
- holding vehicle on a hill with the clutch
- inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)
My service advisor told me about a customer who took out a Z4 6-speed service loaner. She claimed she could drive a manual but called about 20 miles away (this was in the city) that the "transmission had malfunctioned." Diagnosis was worn and overheated clutch disc and flywheel (turned blue and cracked from heat).
Someone here may posted a story about a long distance purchase of a 550i 6-speed. The transport driver delivered vehicle with a "hot odor." You guessed it, ditto on the diagnosis. It seems like it does not take much ruin these clutch discs and flywheels. Perhaps these components are truly "light-weight" to save weight and to improve fuel economy.
The chatter you are experiencing can be a sign of a warped disc from overheating.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm
08-23-2009, 11:03 AM
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>>The chatter you are experiencing can be a sign of a warped disc from overheating.<<
I'm suspecting this as the principal cause, not from poor driving habits, but from normal heat transmission through the driveline. Clutch warpage was endemic in my 1994 E36 whenever I drive in city traffic for an extended period of time. This issue was well documented in the press, and BMW eventually replaced my clutch with a newer design that wasn't susceptible to warpage. All of course was done under warranty.
I'm suspecting this as the principal cause, not from poor driving habits, but from normal heat transmission through the driveline. Clutch warpage was endemic in my 1994 E36 whenever I drive in city traffic for an extended period of time. This issue was well documented in the press, and BMW eventually replaced my clutch with a newer design that wasn't susceptible to warpage. All of course was done under warranty.
08-23-2009, 11:27 AM
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My Ride: 2010 535i M Sport 6MT
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Robert:
When I wrote "inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)," I meant those those who have operated your vehicle, such as a parking valet, the porters that move vehicles around at a BMW Center, the transport driver that ships/unloads vehicles. I did not mean to imply that you are the source of the inexperience. I apologize if it was interpreted that way.
When I wrote "inexperienced driver (valet, porter, transport driver, etc)," I meant those those who have operated your vehicle, such as a parking valet, the porters that move vehicles around at a BMW Center, the transport driver that ships/unloads vehicles. I did not mean to imply that you are the source of the inexperience. I apologize if it was interpreted that way.