zach1328

You erased my the end of the sentence which said "more potential". Stock vs stock the e39 is definitely going to win. Its tough to compare an FBO 535i ($3000 in mods) to a Dinan Stage 2 (over $20,000!). To make it fair you would need to consider a 535i with ~$20k in mods which gets you a single turbo, suspension and springs, transmission upgrade/build, FBO, and more!

The stage 2 Dinan kit is something like $25,000! An n54 with $25,000 in mods is going to obliterate a 470hp stage 2 Dinan M5!
I couldn't find anything about the Stage 5 kit, but I can only assume its north of $50k? Maybe that will get you to 600hp.
However, some single turbo n54's are putting down over 700 whp - that's nearly 850 at the crank! Most twin turbo set ups are dynoing ~500whp which is nearly 600 at the crank. A whole 130hp more than the Dinan S2 kit.

Also, there is no way to tell which n54's have forged internals, but many people who have torn down their engines have confirmed the forged internals. I think the fact that there are n54's out there with stock internals pushing 725whp (~870 at the crank) is enough evidence to prove the strength of the stock internals.

Marc G911

I had the same thoughts, e39 M5 as a daily or 535i manual for s daily driver. I love the e39 but it's just so dated at this point so I ended up with the 535 and I really enjoy it, 6 speed, Sport/Premium/Nav/Sirius and a Cobb tune. It's fun enough for a daily driver but It's not my only car so I do have some good weekend drivers. I might have went for the M if I did not have those.
Only thing is the car needs and exhaust bad, It's too damn quiet!

zach1328

Well said - they're very fun daily drivers! Certainly not the best weekend cars though.
Going FBO + upgraded turbo's makes it an amazing weekend driver but takes away some of that everyday drivability. However, not any worse than the everyday drivability of the m5.

Its tough to get non-biased answers on the e60 side of the forum. Just like its tough to get non-biased answers from the e39 or m5 side of the forum.
We're all in certain sections because its the car we own & drive and we all have different reasons for making our decisions.

I purchased an e60 535i because I wanted its potential for lots of power, good handling, stylish looks (IMO), amazing comfort/quiet road noise, etc. The M5 offers a lot of that too, but at the end of the day it simply doesn't have the same kind of everyday drivability.
If I were buying the car to be a weekend only car there is no doubt in my mind I would have opted for the e39 m5 or e46 m3.

Well I ended up getting a 335i as my weekend car now. Soon to be FBO + Meth in the next 6 months, then I'll be upgrading the turbo's a few years down the road when I get bored.

biz77

We are discussing the E39 M5. It sounds like you're talking about the E60 M5. Two phrases that should never be used in the same sentence: "BMW E60 M5" and "Reliable." Maintenance and repairs on the E60 M5 make an E60 535i look like a Toyota or Honda in comparison.


Here are some costs associated with an E60 M5:
Oil - Castrol TWS10-60: $12 per liter. The car requires 9 liters for an oil change.
Brakes - OEM rotors and pads (no sensors, no labor) - $1,500.00 Just basic parts!
SMG clutch - This will likely need to be replaced around 75,000 miles. Parts are $1,350.00. The dealer charges 8 hours of labor.
Fuel costs - enjoy 10 mpg on premium fuel.
Hope your SMG pump doesn't go out. It's a common issue and it will cost you $4,000 - $6,000 to replace.
Really hope that your main rod bearings don't get eaten. Also another common issue on these cars and it will cost you at least $6,000.00. If an injector stuck open (also an issue) count on closer to a $10,000.00 repair bill.




Despite prices of these cars coming down into the $30,000 range, they still have the expense associated with a $100,000 low-production high performance vehicle. People forget this when the temptation is there to stretch the budget and spend a little bit more for that bad ass M car.

tpaxadpom

I was referring to M5 E60 only in PS section. You are right being able to buy M car and being able to afford one are different things.
M5 E60 can be tracked, it will cost a lot to maintain, that is true but the headroom in the design of that engine is day and night over modified N54. It was designed as such from the get go. N54 is fun to tune (budget M5, tuner heaven) and the maintenance is definitely cheaper. I am well aware of what it cost to own an M car, that is why I don't own one. The bad reliability associated with E60 is not the small production M5 (<20000), not N62 with its leaks but N54 engine (535i, 535xi). Way too many failures in the early life span (bath tub curve).

darkrider

FWIW, I've been running my 2010 535i tuned since I bought it in 2012. 2 years and 24k miles later, I haven't had a single mechanical problem (mask unit replaced under warranty). I started with the JB+ and DCI and within 6 months went over to the Cobb AP V2 running stage 1 aggressive. I replaced plugs at 38K, since I was starting to get a light stumble. All coils and injectors were good, and carbon intake buildup was checked, but negligible (likely will need a cleaning closer to 75k). At 45k now, and it runs like an absolute champ. I'd like to add an FMIC, DPs, and a couple of other items, but I am waiting until I come off CPO. The E39 M5 is an awesome car, but the tuned 535i is going to be lighter, faster and cheaper to maintain.

tpaxadpom

That's good to know. What is your driving style (do you drive aggressively, do you take your car to the track)?

biz77

Everything that I have seen indicates the M5's drivetrain is at least as unreliable as the E60 535's.


To your point about headroom in the engine. There are cars making over 800 BHP on completely stock long block N54s. That's more than 2.5 times the original output of the engine. I don't know of any S85s that can make the same claim. Correct me if I'm wrong.

darkrider

I think it's safe to say I tend towards aggressive. I've tracked motorcycles, but have yet to track the 535i... although I've thought about it more than once! I have a number of very good roads nearby (N. GA, E. TN, and W. NC) to play on that seldom see any traffic. I bought the 5'er as a DD, but really have enjoyed playing in it as well.

zach1328

+1. I'm an aggressive driver as well and usually go WOT at least 5 times a day. I've taken it to quite a few closed roads and I'm sure its seen 120+mph over 150 times.
It's been incredibly reliable. Only issue was the water pump which broke at 51k miles. Not a single other issue and I still haven't cleaned my intake valves.
It still runs like a champ and is showing no signs of slowing down.

My 335i is also turning out to be just as reliable so I hope that continues! They're strong engines and love to be driven hard. As mentioned, they are capable of 750+whp on completely stock internals. After all, the n54 has won more awards than any other 6-cylinder engine in BMW's history - this engine is the real deal!