Burning rubber used to be easy before....NERDS!
08-19-2006, 01:34 PM
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Znod, I think I have a similar situation as you when it comes to wheel spin and launches. Talk about software that tries its best to dish power out gently. Of course I know this is better on moving parts, i.e. tranny, rear end. I adore my 550 but you know these little nerds inside my ECU could use a smack in the A$$.
I wonder if anyone else's 550 or E60 Step does this: Now most 'normal' cars I've had that were automatic would let you torque the motor at a stop (holding brake left foot, slowly giving gas with right) until the torque converters stall speed is reached and if you have enough power (360 hp should suffice) it will start to break traction and spin the wheels (one or both depending of course on differential) while your standing still or this method can assist you in getting a quicker launch providing the slightly spinning launch like Znod has referenced in his posts before when trying to get the best 0-60 times. I describe this launch as a quickly chirping cricket where you're barely loosing traction, but enough to let the engine rev up a little quicker off the line. So that's what I 'should' be able to do.. However, the nerds in my ECU have decided that depending on how much brake pedal pressure I apply they will reduce the amount of fuel they send to my engine as I am trying to torque the motor while standing still. So basically I hold the brake very hard and floor it and the computer knows I am trying to do this and says.. no no no, but if I gently let up on the brake pedal to where the car almost wants to start moving the nerds will give the engine more fuel allowing it to spin the wheels. The trick and problem is about 90% of the time you have to let up on the brake too much before the nerds will give you the power to the wheels. So it makes it very hard to launch with wheel spin..grr
I did however find a little bit of a get around: While doing the brake torque method, you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
I know this is a long post but I wanted to give some insight on how to get around the problem if anyone else is having it occur with them. I'd like to hear if it is and if this works for you etc..
(disclaimer: The term 'nerds' here is not meant to be derogatory. It is simply a funny term and I have nothing against nerds or nerd like people, places or things.)
I wonder if anyone else's 550 or E60 Step does this: Now most 'normal' cars I've had that were automatic would let you torque the motor at a stop (holding brake left foot, slowly giving gas with right) until the torque converters stall speed is reached and if you have enough power (360 hp should suffice) it will start to break traction and spin the wheels (one or both depending of course on differential) while your standing still or this method can assist you in getting a quicker launch providing the slightly spinning launch like Znod has referenced in his posts before when trying to get the best 0-60 times. I describe this launch as a quickly chirping cricket where you're barely loosing traction, but enough to let the engine rev up a little quicker off the line. So that's what I 'should' be able to do.. However, the nerds in my ECU have decided that depending on how much brake pedal pressure I apply they will reduce the amount of fuel they send to my engine as I am trying to torque the motor while standing still. So basically I hold the brake very hard and floor it and the computer knows I am trying to do this and says.. no no no, but if I gently let up on the brake pedal to where the car almost wants to start moving the nerds will give the engine more fuel allowing it to spin the wheels. The trick and problem is about 90% of the time you have to let up on the brake too much before the nerds will give you the power to the wheels. So it makes it very hard to launch with wheel spin..grr
I did however find a little bit of a get around: While doing the brake torque method, you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
I know this is a long post but I wanted to give some insight on how to get around the problem if anyone else is having it occur with them. I'd like to hear if it is and if this works for you etc..
(disclaimer: The term 'nerds' here is not meant to be derogatory. It is simply a funny term and I have nothing against nerds or nerd like people, places or things.)
08-19-2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wavehogger' post='324470' date='Aug 19 2006, 04:34 PM
Znod, I think I have a similar situation as you when it comes to wheel spin and launches. Talk about software that tries its best to dish power out gently. Of course I know this is better on moving parts, i.e. tranny, rear end. I adore my 550 but you know these little nerds inside my ECU could use a smack in the A$$.
I wonder if anyone else's 550 or E60 Step does this: Now most 'normal' cars I've had that were automatic would let you torque the motor at a stop (holding brake left foot, slowly giving gas with right) until the torque converters stall speed is reached and if you have enough power (360 hp should suffice) it will start to break traction and spin the wheels (one or both depending of course on differential) while your standing still or this method can assist you in getting a quicker launch providing the slightly spinning launch like Znod has referenced in his posts before when trying to get the best 0-60 times. I describe this launch as a quickly chirping cricket where you're barely loosing traction, but enough to let the engine rev up a little quicker off the line. So that's what I 'should' be able to do.. However, the nerds in my ECU have decided that depending on how much brake pedal pressure I apply they will reduce the amount of fuel they send to my engine as I am trying to torque the motor while standing still. So basically I hold the brake very hard and floor it and the computer knows I am trying to do this and says.. no no no, but if I gently let up on the brake pedal to where the car almost wants to start moving the nerds will give the engine more fuel allowing it to spin the wheels. The trick and problem is about 90% of the time you have to let up on the brake too much before the nerds will give you the power to the wheels. So it makes it very hard to launch with wheel spin..grr
I did however find a little bit of a get around: While doing the brake torque method, you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
I know this is a long post but I wanted to give some insight on how to get around the problem if anyone else is having it occur with them. I'd like to hear if it is and if this works for you etc..
(disclaimer: The term 'nerds' here is not meant to be derogatory. It is simply a funny term and I have nothing against nerds or nerd like people, places or things.)
I wonder if anyone else's 550 or E60 Step does this: Now most 'normal' cars I've had that were automatic would let you torque the motor at a stop (holding brake left foot, slowly giving gas with right) until the torque converters stall speed is reached and if you have enough power (360 hp should suffice) it will start to break traction and spin the wheels (one or both depending of course on differential) while your standing still or this method can assist you in getting a quicker launch providing the slightly spinning launch like Znod has referenced in his posts before when trying to get the best 0-60 times. I describe this launch as a quickly chirping cricket where you're barely loosing traction, but enough to let the engine rev up a little quicker off the line. So that's what I 'should' be able to do.. However, the nerds in my ECU have decided that depending on how much brake pedal pressure I apply they will reduce the amount of fuel they send to my engine as I am trying to torque the motor while standing still. So basically I hold the brake very hard and floor it and the computer knows I am trying to do this and says.. no no no, but if I gently let up on the brake pedal to where the car almost wants to start moving the nerds will give the engine more fuel allowing it to spin the wheels. The trick and problem is about 90% of the time you have to let up on the brake too much before the nerds will give you the power to the wheels. So it makes it very hard to launch with wheel spin..grr
I did however find a little bit of a get around: While doing the brake torque method, you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
I know this is a long post but I wanted to give some insight on how to get around the problem if anyone else is having it occur with them. I'd like to hear if it is and if this works for you etc..
(disclaimer: The term 'nerds' here is not meant to be derogatory. It is simply a funny term and I have nothing against nerds or nerd like people, places or things.)
You have to put the car into step mode and downshift into first gear. I think the car stays in 2nd usually so you can get a smooth ride rather than a hard pull each time you start moving. Also you have to turn dtc/dsc OFF by pressing and holding the button above the ash tray. It will show you on the dash that it is turned off. Takes about 3-5 seconds.
I drove manual and wasnt sure how to launch with step so I posted here the other day. I realized that I wasnt in first gear after someone told me here on the forum.
hope that helps
08-19-2006, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wavehogger' post='324470' date='Aug 19 2006, 02:34 PM
Znod, I think I have a similar situation as you when it comes to wheel spin and launches.
... you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
... you have to hold the release button on the parking brake and pull it up hard enough to put a little pressure on the rear wheels. While doing this, start to let up on the brake pedal a little. This tricks the nerds and they don't know you're using the parking brake and start to pour the power on, resulting in a better launch with plenty if not too much wheel spin if you're not careful. I've tried it maybe 5 times and 3 of the 5 it worked nicely. Sometimes it's hard to get the balance right between the brake pedal and parking brake..
08-19-2006, 03:52 PM
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wavehogger...are you sure your not using the brake and fuel a little too much...i dont have a 550/545 so i think im a little out of my league...but seems to me that the problem is ur applying too much braking at times and too much throttle at times...
i think that even if you start smoothly a car that powerfull can spin its wheels while moving...
i suggest that when you launch you dont press it too much so u dont get too much wheel spin, and then from that point on the fuel pedal, dont just floor it try to fast but steadly give it more power that way you have a little bit wheel spin but not too much that it slows you down...
in the launch try to find the balance betweel the power and brakeing...u dont really want that much wheel spin. very little just enough to show the power is there and ready...
i think that even if you start smoothly a car that powerfull can spin its wheels while moving...
i suggest that when you launch you dont press it too much so u dont get too much wheel spin, and then from that point on the fuel pedal, dont just floor it try to fast but steadly give it more power that way you have a little bit wheel spin but not too much that it slows you down...
in the launch try to find the balance betweel the power and brakeing...u dont really want that much wheel spin. very little just enough to show the power is there and ready...
08-19-2006, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by madoon' post='324492' date='Aug 19 2006, 07:52 PM
wavehogger...are you sure your not using the brake and fuel a little too much...i dont have a 550/545 so i think im a little out of my league...but seems to me that the problem is ur applying too much braking at times and too much throttle at times...
i think that even if you start smoothly a car that powerfull can spin its wheels while moving...
i suggest that when you launch you dont press it too much so u dont get too much wheel spin, and then from that point on the fuel pedal, dont just floor it try to fast but steadly give it more power that way you have a little bit wheel spin but not too much that it slows you down...
in the launch try to find the balance betweel the power and brakeing...u dont really want that much wheel spin. very little just enough to show the power is there and ready...
i think that even if you start smoothly a car that powerfull can spin its wheels while moving...
i suggest that when you launch you dont press it too much so u dont get too much wheel spin, and then from that point on the fuel pedal, dont just floor it try to fast but steadly give it more power that way you have a little bit wheel spin but not too much that it slows you down...
in the launch try to find the balance betweel the power and brakeing...u dont really want that much wheel spin. very little just enough to show the power is there and ready...
I should have mentioned that this isn't my first time attempting this technique. I've grown up in a family of auto enthusiasts and also raced at the 1/4 track for many years so I do know the right combination of brake vs throttle. Though most of my cars I raced were manuals. And yes I have the car in Manual 1st gear, with DSC/DTC off, though it does the same thing in either regular auto mode or DS or manual 1st. The computer is smart enough to not care and those NERDS are a pain in the.. So no matter how you hit the gas pedal, slightly, more or a lot once the ECU detects you are trying to torque it just doesn't give the engine power. But I'd love to hear if anyone else has this happening with an 07' 550 Steptronic. I'm going to assume we all have the same NERDS! It's not really a big deal in the whole scheme of things. Whether I can spin or not the car does go like a monster the second it starts moving anyway.. It just would be fun to be able to launch a little more aggressively sometimes without having to do a dance with the parking brake, regular brakes and gas.. And I am a control freak so it just BUGS ME!
08-19-2006, 11:54 PM
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Although it will remain a mystery to me, why anyone would do those things with a 550, I just cant?t keep off the racing league?s discussions, so I stumbled upon this question of LAUNCHING a 550 steptronic (an oxymoron in my eyes). Now I wonder, if anyone has positive evidence, that those launching maneuvres described actually improve the times for 0-60 or 1/4 mile at all? Or are they rather useful in front of cafes filled with college kids? 
Znod, godfather of the stopwatch, any raw data?
Znod, godfather of the stopwatch, any raw data?
08-20-2006, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by wavehogger' post='324495' date='Aug 20 2006, 01:05 AM
I am a control freak so it just BUGS ME!
ABC
08-20-2006, 03:44 AM
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With my old E46 3er, it had a DSC button to de-activate the DSC, same as in the E60. However, if you pressed the brake pedal and at the same time held the DSC button for at least 3 seconds, it de-activated ALL kind of ECU "nerd" intervention, i.e. wheel spins, oversteering, etc. where limitless 
I found this out from my local dealer, but haven't asked about the E60. Maybe worth a try next time your prepping your launches, to see if something along these lines is possible with your car.
I found this out from my local dealer, but haven't asked about the E60. Maybe worth a try next time your prepping your launches, to see if something along these lines is possible with your car.
08-20-2006, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by xBMWx' post='324551' date='Aug 20 2006, 01:44 PM
With my old E46 3er, it had a DSC button to de-activate the DSC, same as in the E60. However, if you pressed the brake pedal and at the same time held the DSC button for at least 3 seconds, it de-activated ALL kind of ECU "nerd" intervention, i.e. wheel spins, oversteering, etc. where limitless
I found this out from my local dealer, but haven't asked about the E60. Maybe worth a try next time your prepping your launches, to see if something along these lines is possible with your car.
I found this out from my local dealer, but haven't asked about the E60. Maybe worth a try next time your prepping your launches, to see if something along these lines is possible with your car.
Just checked it out on mine and IT WORKS!!...
Press the brake pedal and DSC button at the same time for around 3-5 seconds, until a new yellow symbol comes up on screen between the Speedo & Rev. Counter. The symbol is " ! " in a triangle and an arrow around it which implies all DSC / traction control safety features are not activated. Then hit the accelerator and watch those tyres spin and spin!!
wavehogger,
not sure if this will help your particular case, as it may be a different part of the system which prevents the tyre spinning you are trying do...
08-20-2006, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by aybeesea' post='324550' date='Aug 20 2006, 07:22 AM
Why would a control freak use a steptronic box?
ABC
ABC
He has a significant other who cannot drive a manual, who he loves MORE than a car.
xBMWx: I'll try your idea of turning it off while pressing the brake. It's a long shot but I think it's just a matter of BMW trying to protect the drivetrain with all the HP it has. Seems every time we get newer CIP programs like Znod, we loose, not gain, more driveability.