from another forum..
11-04-2005, 05:47 AM
#1
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My Ride: 2008 E60 M5/SMG (LCI)
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from another BMW forum ... this guy had an E60 loaner while his E46 was in the shop!!!!
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
11-04-2005, 06:00 AM
#2
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My Ride: 2004 545i - 6 speed manual (July 04 build), silver-grey/black, sports package std equipment (18", active roll, active steering, adaptive headlights), premium sound, bluetooth enabled, folding rear seat, lumbar, 3m hood/bumper protective film, rear tint, euro reflectors.
Everybody is entitled to thier opinion - otherwise everybody would be driving one (if they could afford it).
I would agree that the first time I saw the E60 as compared to the previous 5er, I was disappointed. However, after seeing it for 6 months, my opinions have changed. And, after owning one for over a year, they have definately changed.
Also, it is hard to compare a 3 series to a 5 series - completely different car and feel. Of course the performance is going to be different - da! smaller lighter versus bigger heavier. You can't compare similar engine sizes either - when you step up to the 5 and want similar performance, you have to increase the engine.
I love mine and frankly that is all I give a rats a$$ about.
Also, I have gotten more compliments and looks on this car than any I have driven in the past.
I would agree that the first time I saw the E60 as compared to the previous 5er, I was disappointed. However, after seeing it for 6 months, my opinions have changed. And, after owning one for over a year, they have definately changed.
Also, it is hard to compare a 3 series to a 5 series - completely different car and feel. Of course the performance is going to be different - da! smaller lighter versus bigger heavier. You can't compare similar engine sizes either - when you step up to the 5 and want similar performance, you have to increase the engine.
I love mine and frankly that is all I give a rats a$$ about.
Also, I have gotten more compliments and looks on this car than any I have driven in the past.
11-04-2005, 06:11 AM
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You also have to remember that some dealer loaner cars (not all, but some) are the most basic entry level cars (limited to no options, etc), which could make the driver feel like the loaner is "cheap" or at least not as good as their car which is in the shop!
11-04-2005, 06:11 AM
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My Ride: E60 Limo with M-Sport package(m5 mirrors,m5 trunk finisher,m172 summer wheels,blk front grills,m5 paddle shift kit(my530i),m pedal covers,m floor mats,
E87 2005 The Misses car
E39 2002 Touring with M-Sport package/family wagon(gone but not forgotten)
Originally Posted by JayEll' post='193397' date='Nov 4 2005, 03:47 PM
from another BMW forum ... this guy had an E60 loaner while his E46 was in the shop!!!!
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
11-04-2005, 06:27 AM
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Indeed everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion. However...
I went from a E46 328iSE with a nice spec (a car a really liked and had for 6 1/2 years) to my recent E61 530d (which I've had for a month) and I have to argue the exact opposite...
1) The car is 'designed'. That's why it evokes controversy and disparate views and this is a good thing IMHO. Not everybody likes the same paintings, architecture, etc.. The interior of the E60 I love too - in my opinion a quiet and classy place to be (the first of these is some feat for a diesel!)
2) The 530d with steptronic is quick! I'd say it is a lot more responsive when overtaking than my E46 - I rarely have to switch across to manual mode on the steptronic. On my E46 I'd have had to plant my foot, or switch to manual before contemplating overtaking.
3) IDrive and indicators take some getting used to ... but I've found that I have done just that. I don't think you could really judge iDrive after even a few hours. I've just got used to glancing at the display and then knowing what movements to do (with nice force-feedback) to get to where I wanted. The push and hold switching between the screens (radio/nav/climate/phone) makes this quite easy.
So for me the E60 wins hands down
I went from a E46 328iSE with a nice spec (a car a really liked and had for 6 1/2 years) to my recent E61 530d (which I've had for a month) and I have to argue the exact opposite...
1) The car is 'designed'. That's why it evokes controversy and disparate views and this is a good thing IMHO. Not everybody likes the same paintings, architecture, etc.. The interior of the E60 I love too - in my opinion a quiet and classy place to be (the first of these is some feat for a diesel!)
2) The 530d with steptronic is quick! I'd say it is a lot more responsive when overtaking than my E46 - I rarely have to switch across to manual mode on the steptronic. On my E46 I'd have had to plant my foot, or switch to manual before contemplating overtaking.
3) IDrive and indicators take some getting used to ... but I've found that I have done just that. I don't think you could really judge iDrive after even a few hours. I've just got used to glancing at the display and then knowing what movements to do (with nice force-feedback) to get to where I wanted. The push and hold switching between the screens (radio/nav/climate/phone) makes this quite easy.
So for me the E60 wins hands down
11-04-2005, 06:30 AM
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My Ride: 2005 BMW 545i, Silver Grey, Sport Package, R. Shades, Cold Pkg, Sat. Rad., Prem. Sound.
Originally Posted by JayEll' post='193397' date='Nov 4 2005, 08:47 AM
from another BMW forum ... this guy had an E60 loaner while his E46 was in the shop!!!!
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
11-04-2005, 06:35 AM
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My Ride: 545iSMGSilver GrayAuburn Dakota LeatherLogic 7 Premium SoundSports Package
Eh... ya... everyone has their opinion... you dont really learn the car on the first day.
One thing that stood out to me was the blinker comment. I much prefer the new soft blinkers in the E60 E90 and E65... the old click style I dont like anymore I dont like the longer travel and I dont like the harsher "click" into blinking more... personal preference...
I also like the E60 interior MORE than the E46... I thought the E46 material used was cheaper... the E60 car over all feels more solid. Is try with all 5 series compared to the 3.
One thing that stood out to me was the blinker comment. I much prefer the new soft blinkers in the E60 E90 and E65... the old click style I dont like anymore I dont like the longer travel and I dont like the harsher "click" into blinking more... personal preference...
I also like the E60 interior MORE than the E46... I thought the E46 material used was cheaper... the E60 car over all feels more solid. Is try with all 5 series compared to the 3.
11-04-2005, 06:45 AM
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My Ride: 2010 750Li M sport
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is why they make different color cars. However, I don't understand why some people think the e60 is ugly. 
When I first got in an e60, I had absolutely no problem changing the radio station. It was so easy and intuitive 
Stole that word from BMW.
I love my e39 styling and the car is still a blast to drive, but to me, and this is just another opinion, the e60 is so much better looking. My e39 really looks dated now.
When I first got in an e60, I had absolutely no problem changing the radio station. It was so easy and intuitive Stole that word from BMW. I love my e39 styling and the car is still a blast to drive, but to me, and this is just another opinion, the e60 is so much better looking. My e39 really looks dated now.
11-04-2005, 06:51 AM
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My Ride: 2008 E60 M5/SMG (LCI)
Interlagos Blue/Black Merino
Aux input, sun protection glass, Bluetooth, Voice control
everyone IS entitled to their own opinions ..
but his quote that the E60 would NEVER make you proud of ownership...! bit harsh!
personally, i think it's a cracking design. and everyone that has seen my car couldn't agree more.
but his quote that the E60 would NEVER make you proud of ownership...! bit harsh!
personally, i think it's a cracking design. and everyone that has seen my car couldn't agree more.
11-04-2005, 06:51 AM
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My Ride: 2011 550i, Black Saphire, Black Nappa leather, Anthracite headliner, Convenience Pkg, Premium Pkg #2, Sport Pkg, Sport Auto, delivered 6/24/10
2011 X5 xDrive 35i Sport Activity, Black Sapphire, Black Nappa, Convenience Pkg. M Sport Pkg, Technology Pkg. Comfort Access, Satellite Radio, Premium hi-fi system, delivered 4/26/10
Previous BMWs
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2003 745Li
2000 M5
2000 540i
Originally Posted by JayEll' post='193397' date='Nov 4 2005, 09:47 AM
from another BMW forum ... this guy had an E60 loaner while his E46 was in the shop!!!!
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
You may have seen from this thread that I got the use of a spanking new E60 (525d Step) as a courtesy car when my own car (E46 325i Step) went in for routine service.
I thought you might like to hear my brief observations: it is not often you get to spend a whole day with a car, rather than a short road test.
Exterior: When I first saw the E60 on its launch, I felt is was one of the Bangle team's least successful efforts. Having inspected the car very closely, I remain of this view. It is a car which could never inspire any pride of ownership - unlike my E46 which, even 3? years since buying it, causes me occasionally to glance over my shoulder when I park it!
Interior: Not nice! I felt I had taken a step downmarket rather than upmarket. Didn't like the black leather and the sharp edged plastics used. A couple of friends, I gave a lift to, assumed this was a lesser model in the BMW range than the one I owned......
Controls: Horrid! Didn't like the "key + starter button" arrangement, the idiotic indicator operation. And I didn't even bother with the I-Drive after one abortive attempt to change the radio station with it!
Performance: Rather weird. Because of the torque of the diesel engine there is an initial promising surge up to about 35mph and then....... not much! There was a trace of turbo-lag. Unlike my E46 which is often travelling faster than one might think, the 525d was often travelling slower than perceived. Overall I would rate the performance as OK but unexciting.
Handling: Initially seemed less overtly sporty than the E46 but this was mainly because of the over-assisted steering. Once you get the feel of the steering the dynamics of the car are very good and I felt just as confident chucking it around as with the smaller car. Car seems badly affected by crosswinds, which surprised me.
Suspension and Ride: Better than the E46 but not by a great deal. Bumps and thumps seem louder though.
Brakes: Excellent - definitely better than E46.
Overall Driving Experience: Let's put it this way - I let out a sigh of relief mingled with pleasure as I drove away in my E46 after handing back the E60.
Would I ever replace my E46 with a E60 diesel of the same engine size? I think you will be able to guess my answer........... not a chance!! That is not to say that the 525d is a bad car - it isn't. But it really did seem like a backward step.
The E46 and E60 are totally different cars and actually serve two different market categories. My E46 is perfect for two people to get around quickly, nimbly and with driving enjoyment. My E60 handles a family and does so with style, speed and the same driving enjoyment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2005 E60 550i, Black Saphire Metallic, Beige Leather, Logic 7, Sport Package, Comfort Access, NAV System, Sirus Radio, 20% tint, Breyton 19s. Took delivery 10/19/05.
2001 E46 330ci, Steel Grey Metallic, Black Leather, Black Top, Sport & Premium Pkgs, Harmon-Kardon, Steptronic, Heated Seats, Xenon Headlamps 19,000 original miles
Previous BMWs
2003 745Li
2000 M5
2000 540i