Air Bus and BMW
06-08-2009, 02:32 PM
#11
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My Ride: 2009 535xi, short shifter, no CDV
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/151...ing-130mph.html
In the case above, stuck throttle pedal. What will you do to stop the car?
The victim apply brake and cause it become fade then useless.... I know with the current "start" button, you actually can not stop the engine when the car is moving. I have try it. ( I was thinking risk no power steering and no brake assistance better then keep running. ....)
Will the brake strong enough just stop the car.... ( i mean keep apply until the car stopped ) .... not drag try to use it slower the car at 70 until it burned.
How about down shift ( in automatic ) to slow the car. The engine will over rev. at lower gear.... but better then keep it in high gear and high speed. But the control by wire transmission might block you down shift since the car is at high speed with high rpm.....
I drive manual, I should just push clutch and down shift ....... let the engine burned.... and ask BMW to give a new one.
In the case above, stuck throttle pedal. What will you do to stop the car?
The victim apply brake and cause it become fade then useless.... I know with the current "start" button, you actually can not stop the engine when the car is moving. I have try it. ( I was thinking risk no power steering and no brake assistance better then keep running. ....)
Will the brake strong enough just stop the car.... ( i mean keep apply until the car stopped ) .... not drag try to use it slower the car at 70 until it burned.
How about down shift ( in automatic ) to slow the car. The engine will over rev. at lower gear.... but better then keep it in high gear and high speed. But the control by wire transmission might block you down shift since the car is at high speed with high rpm.....
I drive manual, I should just push clutch and down shift ....... let the engine burned.... and ask BMW to give a new one.
06-09-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by juventus' post='904517' date='Jun 8 2009, 03:08 PM
Princess Diana died when her Mercedes crashed. Does that make Mercedes Benz an unsafe car? NO.
The A330 has been flying for close to 15 years with ZERO fatalities except for a training flight incident and the latest AF incident. The Boeing 747 has had several hull loses (and yes, with fatalities) but that does not make it an unsafe aircraft. The A330/A340 series make the backbone of airlines all over the world and have excellent reliability and safety records. Don't believe all that media BS. They don't have a clue of they are talking about.
The A330 has been flying for close to 15 years with ZERO fatalities except for a training flight incident and the latest AF incident. The Boeing 747 has had several hull loses (and yes, with fatalities) but that does not make it an unsafe aircraft. The A330/A340 series make the backbone of airlines all over the world and have excellent reliability and safety records. Don't believe all that media BS. They don't have a clue of they are talking about.
The issue with Airbus is that they already know about the fault and have done for a while now, knowing an accurate air speed is critical to an aircraft staying in the sky. Not being an aircraft designer or tech but from an outsider point of view, the program to replace these sensors should be stepped up.
06-09-2009, 09:50 AM
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My Ride: 07 E61 530d M-Sport.
Originally Posted by Bob525D' post='905489' date='Jun 9 2009, 06:18 PM
The issue with Airbus is that they already know about the fault and have done for a while now, knowing an accurate air speed is critical to an aircraft staying in the sky. Not being an aircraft designer or tech but from an outsider point of view, the program to replace these sensors should be stepped up.
Tbh honest they arent unsafe, your jumping to conclusions when no one knows what happened yet. The aircraft has two independant systems to work out airspeed and also has a standby system which works on its own with no computer input. What ever happened to the AirFrance flight was very serious and not just a failing of flyby wire systems. Airbus and Boeing both make very good aircraft and moving to flyby wire systems is nothing new and is tried and tested technology. Lets wait and see what the outcome is of the crash investigation before slating companies/aircaft.
06-09-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ponnu' post='904357' date='Jun 8 2009, 01:32 PM
How reliable are these ?drive-by-wire? in BMWs as in ?fly-by-wire? in Airbus ? I have not studied the redundant system in automobiles such as BMW, but for sure Airbus has several of them like backup computers, communication systems and power supply. In spite of all these based on wrong speed sensor a flight can go down? How vulnerable are we with these new technologies ( Our e60 has all of these ..)
Drive by wire
Steer by wire
Brake by Wire
Transmission by wire
Drive by wire
Steer by wire
Brake by Wire
Transmission by wire
Firstly the definition of "by wire" is that there is no traditional "mechanical link" between the input and output.
Drive by wire: I'll assume you mean throttle position. There is a sensor on the accelerator pedal, then a servo on the throttle body. What it does is: measure the accelerator position, then duplicate that at the throttle body. Every fault condition results in the throttle dropping to idle. Some fault conditions I can think of are: loss of input signal (from pedal) = idle throttle. Loss of 12v power = idle throttle. Faulty signal = idle throttle. The only time it can be stuck on, is if there is a mechanical jam at the throttle body which the (strong) spring cannot close the butterfly. This is a problem on ALL throttle mechanisms, not just "by wire" systems. So done properly (which the BMW system is) throttle by wire is indeed safer.
Steer by wire: e60's still have a conventional steering column attached to a rack and pinion. It goes through a gear reduction box which changes the ratio depending on road speed, but there is still a mechanical link. No production car uses steer by wire. Even with the engine not running you can still steer the car (albeit hard because of no power assistance).
Brake by wire: No BWM uses brake by wire. You still press the brake pedal which creates hydraulic pressure which clamps the pads on to the disk. Only Toyota and MB use a brake by wire system, but even those are not fully electronic.
Transmission by wire: The LCI e60 uses an electronic control of the transmission. The very worst that can happen is that it can select the wrong gear. Not really a safety concern. If all fails generally it will select 2nd gear and go into "limp home mode" and allow you to continue driving.
There are many performance aspects of why "by wire" systems are better, but from a safety aspect they are still safer, providing they are done properly. That is why Airbus, Boeing, Northrop, Mercedes, BWM etc. have moved or are moving to "by wire" systems.
Hope this helps.
06-09-2009, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Furious_g' post='905741' date='Jun 9 2009, 05:37 PM
You're wrong for the most part.
Firstly the definition of "by wire" is that there is no traditional "mechanical link" between the input and output.
Drive by wire: I'll assume you mean throttle position. There is a sensor on the accelerator pedal, then a servo on the throttle body. What it does is: measure the accelerator position, then duplicate that at the throttle body. Every fault condition results in the throttle dropping to idle. Some fault conditions I can think of are: loss of input signal (from pedal) = idle throttle. Loss of 12v power = idle throttle. Faulty signal = idle throttle. The only time it can be stuck on, is if there is a mechanical jam at the throttle body which the (strong) spring cannot close the butterfly. This is a problem on ALL throttle mechanisms, not just "by wire" systems. So done properly (which the BMW system is) throttle by wire is indeed safer.
Steer by wire: e60's still have a conventional steering column attached to a rack and pinion. It goes through a gear reduction box which changes the ratio depending on road speed, but there is still a mechanical link. No production car uses steer by wire. Even with the engine not running you can still steer the car (albeit hard because of no power assistance).
Brake by wire: No BWM uses brake by wire. You still press the brake pedal which creates hydraulic pressure which clamps the pads on to the disk. Only Toyota and MB use a brake by wire system, but even those are not fully electronic.
Transmission by wire: The LCI e60 uses an electronic control of the transmission. The very worst that can happen is that it can select the wrong gear. Not really a safety concern. If all fails generally it will select 2nd gear and go into "limp home mode" and allow you to continue driving.
There are many performance aspects of why "by wire" systems are better, but from a safety aspect they are still safer, providing they are done properly. That is why Airbus, Boeing, Northrop, Mercedes, BWM etc. have moved or are moving to "by wire" systems.
Hope this helps.
Firstly the definition of "by wire" is that there is no traditional "mechanical link" between the input and output.
Drive by wire: I'll assume you mean throttle position. There is a sensor on the accelerator pedal, then a servo on the throttle body. What it does is: measure the accelerator position, then duplicate that at the throttle body. Every fault condition results in the throttle dropping to idle. Some fault conditions I can think of are: loss of input signal (from pedal) = idle throttle. Loss of 12v power = idle throttle. Faulty signal = idle throttle. The only time it can be stuck on, is if there is a mechanical jam at the throttle body which the (strong) spring cannot close the butterfly. This is a problem on ALL throttle mechanisms, not just "by wire" systems. So done properly (which the BMW system is) throttle by wire is indeed safer.
Steer by wire: e60's still have a conventional steering column attached to a rack and pinion. It goes through a gear reduction box which changes the ratio depending on road speed, but there is still a mechanical link. No production car uses steer by wire. Even with the engine not running you can still steer the car (albeit hard because of no power assistance).
Brake by wire: No BWM uses brake by wire. You still press the brake pedal which creates hydraulic pressure which clamps the pads on to the disk. Only Toyota and MB use a brake by wire system, but even those are not fully electronic.
Transmission by wire: The LCI e60 uses an electronic control of the transmission. The very worst that can happen is that it can select the wrong gear. Not really a safety concern. If all fails generally it will select 2nd gear and go into "limp home mode" and allow you to continue driving.
There are many performance aspects of why "by wire" systems are better, but from a safety aspect they are still safer, providing they are done properly. That is why Airbus, Boeing, Northrop, Mercedes, BWM etc. have moved or are moving to "by wire" systems.
Hope this helps.
06-09-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Krozi' post='906018' date='Jun 9 2009, 09:15 PM
The technology that goes into these cars is crazy.
06-09-2009, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by craigm1841' post='906022' date='Jun 9 2009, 09:16 PM
at least my BMW wont plummet into the ocean. you are posting away today my friend... so close...
