Hello again Monsieur James,

As an aside, I detest Mercedes, not for the product since in truth I believe they have produced many of the finest built automobiles the world has seen, but rather for the ignorant pretense of their prototypical customer in this country. And so it seems you have some similar disdain for BMW. I am not in any way asking that you address that comment, I'm simply offering my opinion after responding to a number of your posts.

I would love to respond to the recent post piecemeal, but time is short. So summarily: both articles support the conclusion that the 550i was in a class of its own in regard to handling (statistics aside). A high slalom speed is impressive, but don't forget that softer sprung cars, all other things being equal, generate more grip. I have not driven the Jag, and I'd be surprised if I am not impressed with it when I do. But here is the bottom line underlying this whole thread. Some of us enter exit ramps marked 30mph at 75mph, and view driving in the rain as a challenge to operate on the cusp of hydroplaning. Perhaps these are the same people that may have gotten their cars airborne on a back country road or can comment first hand on how little fade there is when slowing from 162 (Dinan software). They may even be habitually impatient on the highway rapidly changing lanes at illegal speeds as if they are being chased by the police. For those of use who can relate to any or all of these scenarios, you truly can appreciate what it means to have a better handling car. Because we actually use the full capabilities of the car in daily use. Those who are more tame behind the wheel save for an occasional favorite road, or red light encounter, might very well appreciate performance, but don't really require it. If you are in the former category as I am, the 550 is the only choice among all the cars listed in these comparisons. Sport package BMWs are the only cars I have ever driven that don't feel like you're doing something wrong and really abusing the car when I drive the way I drive. That's what I meant by" smoke" the competition, not in regard to statics but rather as the most precise and stiffest riding car in its category. And both of these articles support that conclusion.

As for my car, (I believe I mentioned this elsewhere), the only mechanical difference with an LCI, by my understanding, is the sport auto (which wasn't offered until June 07 builds). I have 08' wheels with the correct size non run flat Continentals, the M body kit, and the 08' sport exhaust, as well as the 08 M sport shocks, springs and bump stops. I even asked the dealer to use an 08 VIN when doing the alignment after the suspension work was done. I'm not aware of any other mechanical differences? The suspension had a significant impact on the personality, ride and capabilities of the car.

Always a pleasure chatting,

P.S. I had never heard that Porsche Design was involved with Loewe electronics. I did read that my TV (Aconda) is painted in Titansilber Metallic, the exact same paint used on BMWs... Interesting.

 

Likewise DRP, it is indeed always a pleasure and I always look out for your posts as I think you've got some interesting opinions and perspective to contribute to the forum. I think we're both focused on performance and handling and I don't think we've got any material difference of opinion. I do want to respond to one point, however, relating to the suggestion of mild disdain for BMW. Truth is, nothing could be further from the truth. I've been an owner, I will be again, and I hold the marque in high regard. That said, I am able to accept that BMW's genius is occasionally flawed, and I also like to get into these discussions for a different reason which is that as an enthusiast I also have a lot of respect for what many other manufacturers are doing and when the product is good I like to acknowledge and credit that. In playing devil's advocate the points I really make is that the BMW lead over other mainstream marques is under threat so BMW needs to keep on its toes and keep on pushing the envelope. Also, there is lot of blind loyalty offered to BMW from the "fanboy" types, and we have some on this very board, who have a pathological inability to accept that other manufacturers can develop and produce quality product. I believe that blind loyalty to any brand from its customers is actually the single biggest threat to the brand's maintenance of its core values - particularly when it's those values which are what distinguishes it from the competition. Over time, unless buyers demand continuous improvement, complacency will set in, and the brand will lose focus and its performance edge. That's potentially what we're starting to see here.

My worry for BMW is twofold. Firstly, the massive lead that the E39 had over its competition really hasn't been quite as successfully replicated with the E60. Other offerings, and I hold the XF up as one recent example, are offering product that appeal to both the general buyers and enthusiasts alike. That's a good thing. It gives customers more choice, and it sharpens BMW's focus as they design new product. The other is diversity. BMW is just getting into so many areas and trying to cover so many markets that it's at risk of taking its eye off the ball that has served it so well over the years. I offer the X6, which for me is an utterly pointless vehicle, as a point of reference. Compare that to say Porsche, which offers effectively only two core sport models (Boxster/Cayman and the 911) and one SUV, and is able to truly focus on its core values. Right now, I personally don't think BMW really can be anywhere near as focused (and in pursuit of bigger sales, some would rightly say nor should they) but from the enthusiast's perspective that's essentially what will and has always differentiated BMW from say Mercedes and Audi. If that focus goes out of the window, and you yourself have lamented the lack of focus in some current BMW offerings in your threads, then you're left with essentially a slightly better handling Mercedes and that would be a shame.

So, as I hope I've explained, there's method to my madness and it comes from the same core that you clearly share. I have respect for BMW, but I can also accept that it doesn't always get it right, and that other marques can produce product which is just as focused and worthy of more respect than it often gets here. In sum, I'm a car guy first, and a brand guy a distant second - be that BMW, Porsche or whomever. My 911 is incredible, but Porsche is certainly not guaranteed to get my cash when my I decide to replace it, and that's how I define an enthusiast, as opposed to a brand loyalist.

A pleasure talking, Sir, and I look forward to the next debate.

 

I gotta get the popcorn for this ...................

 

Don't forget the soon-to-be Porsche family sedan... I worry that Porsche is sliding the same way that BMW slid by trying to be too much to too many, thus alienating its hard core fan base. Of course, when I raised this in another thread, I was blasted and told to get my head out the sand and join the "modern age."

You may now return to your point-counterpoint...

 

Point taken, I left the Panamera off the radar as it's still not with us but you have a point. That said, it's still only extending Porsche's product line by one vehicle type compared to the number of new segments BMW is adding. I'm actually quite interested in the Panamera (assuming the styling improves from the test mules out there right now). I'd love an Aston Martine Rapide, but in all honesty won't be able to afford one and the Panamera would be a great compromise. Interestingly, the Rapide is the car that Aston's current CEO (Ulrich Bez) wanted to build when he was at Porsche but was never able to do so. In some ways, the Panamera will bridge the gap between the 911 and the Rapide but will be priced much closer to the 911.

 

I agree, it's significant that the e60 remains the reference in the sport sedan segment. Today the XF wins, tomorrow it will be another car, but the e60 remains the car to beat. Personally, I also appreciate that Jaguar has woken up at long last and produced a competitive car. Competition always benefits the consumer.