535xi "Carbon Flush" for $650?!?
12-13-2011, 03:15 PM
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Greetings,
My 2008 535xi with 39,000 miles has been idling rough. It's a few months out of factory warranty but still under BMW CPO.
With the Direct Injection, it is plagued by the infamous carbon build-up on the intake valves (Audi has had a lot of these problems on its DI cars, too) . The dealer has removed the intake, and tells me I need a Carbon Flush (cleaning the carbon off the intake valves), and wants to charge me $650, saying it is not covered under the recently expired warranty or under CPO. This seems absurd to me. Having carbon build-up on intake valves on a 2008 car with less than 40k miles is a ridiculous design flaw, to begin with, but charging me the fix it seems even more crazy.
There are a few other threads out there on this: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520172, but none that I've seen here.
Am I over-reacting? What are your thoughts and experiences with this issue?
BTW, in my ownership of the car, both turbos have also been replaced and the HPFP has been replaced twice. Arg.
My 2008 535xi with 39,000 miles has been idling rough. It's a few months out of factory warranty but still under BMW CPO.
With the Direct Injection, it is plagued by the infamous carbon build-up on the intake valves (Audi has had a lot of these problems on its DI cars, too) . The dealer has removed the intake, and tells me I need a Carbon Flush (cleaning the carbon off the intake valves), and wants to charge me $650, saying it is not covered under the recently expired warranty or under CPO. This seems absurd to me. Having carbon build-up on intake valves on a 2008 car with less than 40k miles is a ridiculous design flaw, to begin with, but charging me the fix it seems even more crazy.
There are a few other threads out there on this: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520172, but none that I've seen here.
Am I over-reacting? What are your thoughts and experiences with this issue?
BTW, in my ownership of the car, both turbos have also been replaced and the HPFP has been replaced twice. Arg.
12-13-2011, 04:15 PM
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My Ride: BMW E-60 530I
pssh man these dealers!
you can either seafoam your car or use chevron fuel system cleaner concentrated every month or every oil change.
but your car is too new for either one of them
dont be paranoid and just dont use cheap gas, and buy a maf cleaner and spray your maf and see if ur idle improves.
you can either seafoam your car or use chevron fuel system cleaner concentrated every month or every oil change.
but your car is too new for either one of them
dont be paranoid and just dont use cheap gas, and buy a maf cleaner and spray your maf and see if ur idle improves.
12-13-2011, 04:46 PM
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I had mine done for the first time last week at 73,000 miles, and the car drives like new again.
I also have had two HPFPs and new turbos as well as all 6 injectors.
Read my "Good Dealer Story" post here...
https://5series.net/forums/topic/119...tory-and-more/
It was all covered under goodwill.
Why is your car not in normal warranty at 39,000 miles?
Push the dealer for goodwill.
There's also another good thread at the "other" forum...
http://www.b-im-mer-f-e-s-t.com/foru...d.php?t=581425
remove all the "-" from the link
I also have had two HPFPs and new turbos as well as all 6 injectors.
Read my "Good Dealer Story" post here...
https://5series.net/forums/topic/119...tory-and-more/
It was all covered under goodwill.
Why is your car not in normal warranty at 39,000 miles?
Push the dealer for goodwill.
There's also another good thread at the "other" forum...
http://www.b-im-mer-f-e-s-t.com/foru...d.php?t=581425
remove all the "-" from the link
12-13-2011, 08:02 PM
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@sachal007 -- Techron or any other fuel-based solutions or good gas won't help with this problem. Detergent in fuel only cleans the intake valve area if the car has port injection. the N54 535i is DI (direct injection), so no fuel goes/spray on top of the intake valve.
The carbon buildup on DI engines is from oil vapors coming into the intake area from the positive crankcase ventilation system. These oil vapors are condensed/deposited on the intake area surface. With port injection the fuel ( with detergents) is constantly washing the deposits off the intake area surface, including the intake valves. With DI, the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. Therefore, without any benefit of cleaning the intake area, the intake valves can get caked up, with no fuel to clean it off, so you have to remove the intake manifold, set each valve individually closed at TDC, then physically clean off the gunk with chemicals and a media blaster.
The carbon buildup on DI engines is from oil vapors coming into the intake area from the positive crankcase ventilation system. These oil vapors are condensed/deposited on the intake area surface. With port injection the fuel ( with detergents) is constantly washing the deposits off the intake area surface, including the intake valves. With DI, the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. Therefore, without any benefit of cleaning the intake area, the intake valves can get caked up, with no fuel to clean it off, so you have to remove the intake manifold, set each valve individually closed at TDC, then physically clean off the gunk with chemicals and a media blaster.
11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
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My Ride: 2010 535xi M-Sport
I know I'm reviving an old thread, but the issue is obviously not old and prevalent among many DI engines.
I figured I'd add my experience as well.
I own a 2010 535xi with 48k miles on it. Shortly after I bought it (August 2012), I started to notice a rough idle and "lag" when initially accelerating in the lower gears. I took it in initially to the dealership and they reset the adaptive transmission and checked the turbos. Of course, this didn't fix the rough idle that I had been experiencing.
Fast forward a couple of months to last week where I called my dealership to let them know that something is wrong and they agreed to take it in and give me a loaner. Lo and behold they say that they need to do a "carbon clean" as there is significant carbon build up on my intake. They also mention that this isn't covered under the factory warranty as this is caused by "environmental factors." Oh, and this was going to cost me about ~$1,050 to clean out.
I begin to tell them that I've seen countless other E60 owners with this same exact issue and that there isn't really much I could have done differently to avoid this issue. I also say that some owners have had luck with the dealership covering this under goodwill. After speaking with several people and pleading my case, I finally get a call back a week later (Thanksgiving holiday didn't help) that BMW will cover the costs for the clean.
I could’ve easily gave in and forked over the cash but a little research saved me about a grand. It’s unfortunate that this isn't something that is included in a factory warranty.
I figured I'd add my experience as well.
I own a 2010 535xi with 48k miles on it. Shortly after I bought it (August 2012), I started to notice a rough idle and "lag" when initially accelerating in the lower gears. I took it in initially to the dealership and they reset the adaptive transmission and checked the turbos. Of course, this didn't fix the rough idle that I had been experiencing.
Fast forward a couple of months to last week where I called my dealership to let them know that something is wrong and they agreed to take it in and give me a loaner. Lo and behold they say that they need to do a "carbon clean" as there is significant carbon build up on my intake. They also mention that this isn't covered under the factory warranty as this is caused by "environmental factors." Oh, and this was going to cost me about ~$1,050 to clean out.
I begin to tell them that I've seen countless other E60 owners with this same exact issue and that there isn't really much I could have done differently to avoid this issue. I also say that some owners have had luck with the dealership covering this under goodwill. After speaking with several people and pleading my case, I finally get a call back a week later (Thanksgiving holiday didn't help) that BMW will cover the costs for the clean.
I could’ve easily gave in and forked over the cash but a little research saved me about a grand. It’s unfortunate that this isn't something that is included in a factory warranty.
11-27-2012, 06:38 PM
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And it probably isn't going to be the fix of your issue either sorry to tell you. Think about it. Does cabon get into the intake manifold? How much carbon can be built up anyway in such a low mileage engine?
11-27-2012, 09:46 PM
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Just cleaned mine at 52k and they are horribly filled with carbon, unfortunately as mentioned cleaners do nothing with these direct injection engines and they must be manually cleaned. I personally ordered a bms oil catch can to help battle this issue.
11-27-2012, 09:55 PM
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My Ride: 2010 535xi M-Sport
From pics that I've seen it can get pretty bad at mileage right around where I'm at.
11-28-2012, 01:09 PM
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Yes mine were horribly coated black as black gets at 52k miles, only way to somewhat battle this issue is to install a catch can to reduce any further build up. It is just another design flaw of these engines. IMO every engine should come with a catch can, manufacturer does not include them because people will forget to empty them with every oil change more than likely.
