5FOUR5

I recently had a member on this forum ask me about my experiences / opinions about the various
scan tools that I have used. So I thought this would be a great post topic for the DIY section
for those who choose to tackle thier own automotive projects / repairs. This member specifically
stated his interests in bmw platforms so I will start out with the GT1 as it is currently BMW NA's
oem level diagnotic tool. All prices that I state will generally pertain to somewhere near msrp,
but it is a fact that units can be found at substantially lower, even at half the msrp price
in new / used condition.

The GT1 is somewhat the only tool I turn to when working on any bmw's. There has been an
instance where I used it on a rolls royce, since they do share some of the same components
with bmw's sub systems, but this all comes at a pretty steep price as I paid $6000 for my unit.
This is not even factoring in update costs, or the j2534-1 (2) and soon (3) interface module
that is required for ecu flashovers. This pass through interface adds on an additional $1500.
Further more, to detract from its costs is the subscription costs to retrieve neccessary files
from bmw. The cons of this unit has clearly been stated being costs. I cannot see myself justifing
the related costs to aquiring and maintaining a tool with this intuitive level, to a basic
DIY'er. However I will state the advantages from my experiences of owning one, this may or may
not justify owning one for some people. The fact is, it has saved me ( and many other friends
and associates ) a lot of time and money. The unit has full obd1 - obd2, can - bus communication
capability, the lenghty parameters of live data is incredable, no other diagnostic tool in the
market today can match the gt1 in this arena. The wiring diagrams and other information within the
TIS / DIS are invaluble. Tech tips and component specs are an absolute time saver when used.
Bi-directional component testing mean that you can now test a component without phisically
uninstalling it to verify its operation. Most of what I have mentioned is available in some form
on other diagnostic platforms, but may be limited in some way. The real reason to get a gt1 when
working on a bmw is really for its programming and activation capabilities. I learned this first
hand a little after a year of owning one. I replace the climate control cluster on a e46 and was
not able to activate it. I called my previous employer new century bmw to verify if they had a slot
for me to drive it in for programming, (of course they did, $90 for 15 mins ). I didnt end up going
there after calling a buddy at another shop with a gt1, it was there that I found out that my update
version was out of date and didnt support the adaptation. The update cost me $700. Pretty procey
for a DIY'er right? In defense, I use it enough to where it has actually paid for itself. I paid
$50 for my buddy to activate the climate cluster that day, but down the line I've installed a few
dinan throttle body (ies) for customers where adaptation was required. Those jobs easily covered
the cost of an update. As far as the cost of the actual unit, the depth of the information it
provides me with has enabled me to diagnose mose efficiently. That in itself is the justification to
consider buying one.

The next unit I will share my experience with about, is actually my favorite! Its the SNAP-ON MODIS!
After using "the brick" for 4 years, I finally traded it in for a MODIS. I have not regret it since.
$6700 it is also quite pricey. I bought mine with the european package which added $900 to the total.
8/10 times I will use this unit, simply because it has domestic, asian, european coverage. The level
of information available is very competetive to many OEM level diagnostic tools. Vehicle specific
information is very generous. Where it outshines other diagnostic tools is the built in modules. The
modis has a built in ocilloscope capable of time vs voltage manipulation, parade, raster, superimposed
views, and filters when looking for electrical blips / irregularities which cannot be seen on a
ohm-meter. The movie function is unmatched by any other diagnostic tool, as I have used this funtion
to "record" movies of electrical / hydralic components. Further mode I have taken advantage of this
feature and have expanded the capabilities of the modis by adding the secondary ignition adaptor
kit ($1500), which initially wasn't used much until I attended a MODIS class and REALLY got familiar
with this unit. It was through this class that I was able to even colaborate with a regional audi
manager in regards to thier faulty ignition coils, I was hired as a tech consultant, and THAT JOB
PAID FOR THE MODIS 3 times over, in the period of 2 months. Imagine that huh? To go on about the
modis, to date I have also added on thier vaccuum / pressure transducers kit ($900), which I do use
to measure egr valves, cylinder pressure, leakdown tests, abs lines, transmission lines, brake lines,
power steering pimps, My modis is basically fully loaded short of the 5 gas unit, which, I am still
on the fence with, but I though that I'd mention it as the unit is capable of taking such reading with
the add on kit. It is really hard to find another unit that has such a vast coverage of vehicles in
different makes and models, The unit is not capable to do ECU flashovers yet, nor will I think that
that particular function will ever be integrated into it, because snap-on has a " more powerful" unit
with the verus being thier flagship now. The verus is essentially a modis on steroids, and they cost
about $1500-2000 more than a modis. Overall I love my modis, my only gripe with it is that I feel
snap-on is very slow on adopting and implementing certain functions to be included in thier updates.
I guess what I'm saying is that I feel thier updates are sometimes not so up to date ( even though
they have bi-annual updates ), if one was in the market for a modis these days they run anywhere from
$1800-$4500 used. Variances in price is due to physical condition of the unit, the update version,
usb capability, ROM version, and kits and adaptors included. The modis gets a very high recommendation
from me for the passionate automotive DIY'er.

My final review of another tool in my arsenal will be of the OTC Genisys 3.0($1400).It cost the least of
the 3, and has most of the basic functions of a "scan tool," it's also got the brightest
display of the 3, navigation is very user friendly,all obd2 functions are available, auto memory of
previous vehicles is a treat as the previous info can be pulled up instantly. Live data stream is very
quick and I must say that the live stream here actually outshines the modis because it is ALL availble
with out navigating out of one screen to see the other (potentially) important info. I can press record
and take short drives to record measurements nothing is lost. The Genisys has bi-directional capability
to test component functionality, abs modules are supported and included, The unit I use does not have
european coverage, but could easily be added on for about $450. The updates for the genisys is very
competitively priced at $600 every 2 years. Keep in mind that I have owned this unit for 4 years and still
haven't updated it, as there has not been a need. I generally use the genisys for honda, toyota, lexus, as
I find the availble information that the genisys provides surpasses that of even the modis. The genisys
does also provide coverage of all other makes and models in the domestic and asian field, but as an example,
when I pull up a live data stream for a lexus, I am treated to about 65 parameters at the same time and
all on 1 page. With the car running, I look at rpm, mph, current gear selection, every o2 sensor readings,
longterm fuel trim, short term fuel trim, maf sensor readings, throttle positions, coolant temp, map pressure,
tpms, injector cycles, at 1/3 1/4 the cost of a modis or gt1, I would highly recommend the genisys + euro
package to a basic DIY'er with mechanical aspirations. i have seen some of the genisys with 3.0 operating
systemsn gothe ing for as low as $750 on ebay in used condition..

All in all it would be hard to justify buying any of these 3 units just to read and erase codes, but depending
on how much DIY'ing you like to do, I proudly own these 3 units and they all still get their shot during
my diagnosis process. I am aware of the launch x431 which I used for a period of 2 months, during which it was
a loaner to me from my matco guy. I found that the unit had excellent bmw, mercedes, audi, porche coverage,
but the unit I got had quite a few "bugs" so I opted not to commit to it until a later time.. I realize that
there are many people out there enjoy working on thier own veicles for various reasons. I will share some more
insight, I try not to buy updates everytime they are available because the truth is, THEY MAY NOT BE NEEDED.
On all 3 of my units, the coverage of vehicles only extend to model years of 2008, IF a car newer than that came
in, I still pull out my pocket ob2 reader!! Just as spending all this money to only read or erase codes is
useless, I don't like to pay for updates for funtions that I do not see myself needing "yet." So in conclusion
make an educated purchase when considering which diagnostic tool to buy. All questions and comments are welcome,
I'd be glad to address them accordingly, and I hope this thread may contribute to the forum in a positive manner
and benefit its members.

miguex

IMO the best tool for diagnostic is : http://www.bavariantechnic.com/

salaki

Thanks for the complete detailed experience on various diag tools.

I am regular DIY guy (engine/transmission oil, brake service, suspension, alarms, 12 volt sounds)

So which would be a reasonably priced scanner tool for a regular DIY to own under $700.
I'd like to have variety of makes capability as well because I do have friends w/ Lexus, Infiniti, Acura and Subaru that may want to share this diagnostic tool

5FOUR5

Finding a scan / diagnostic tool with features anywhere romotely close to the mentioned units in post #1 for around $700 would be quite a daunting task. If just for domestic / asian coverage I would recommend: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OTC-G...motiveQ5fTools. However with european coverage, it'd be an additional $400-$550. Used units with smart cable and euro coverage run about $1000+ SO we will talk about other options... Ask youself.. How much is this "information" (that the scan tool provides) worth? I will take the few tasks you mentioned and see which unit(s) on the market would be of most use. I will be comparing a genisys, modis, and a basic obd2 scan tool ($49-$300). For a brake job, a scan tool wont necessarily be needed. The only unit that could help you in this case, would be the modis, because it has component location, rotor min thickness, pad, torque specs built in. For a suspension job, same apps as a brake job. When it comes to transmission concerns, every scan tool can tell you that there is a transmission fault, then you will have to take that information and further diagnose whether the fault is due to mechanical, hydralic, oe electrical faulure. The only thing a genisys is going to tell you with this job is rpm, speed, current drive gear, solenoid on/off, while a modis is capable of all that, as well as provide you with pressure spec, oil specs, fluid type, fluid capacity, as well as the capabilty to diagnose the electrical ( built in o-scope) and hydralic ( pressure transducers) operations. in terms of alarms and 12 volt sounds, no scan tool is really going to help, other than again, the modis ( built in wiring diagrams ). So again.. I ask.. How much is this information worth??

Info is not cheap. BUT there ARE ways around it. Working with a $700 budget, and the neccessity for asian, euro, domestic (it's the base coverage), I would recommend: buy a pocket scanner. I have a innova ($100) that I keep in the trunk of my car, but I am aware of "similar" units from costco for $49. obd2 is universal emissions language post 1996. Next, buy a craftsman mutimeter ($10 on sale at sears) for your electrical diagnosis. The next neccessity is: http://www.alldatadiy.com/buy/index.html . At this point we are at $150-$200. IF you ever find a need to check engine or tranmission pressures ( compression, leakdown tests, egr tests, vaccuum, brake lines, abs, power steering, trans hydralic line pressures, then you may want to consider buying a pressure/vaccuum tranducer kit ($500-$729).For the tasks that you have mentioned, and the budget that was presented, it is my opinion that this would be your best route. Buying a scan tool is an investment. I can tell you to spend more for a better unit, but if the unit provides you with inadequate coverage, or worse yet provide you with information and capabilties that you have no use for, then where is the reasoning right? The package I just gave you is what I started out with until I felt the need to expand my diagnostic capabilties. It was only then that I knew what I needed and was comfortable with investing such amounts for my current set-up. I hope my input is of use to you or any others that may be reading this. Feel free to ask if there are any other unaddressed concerns. CHEERS.

salaki

Thanks 5FOUR5.

I have the regular orange Actron scanner OBD2 but I was thinking to spend more if I can get a reasonable scanner that will give me more information or can do ABS cycling when I bleed my brake.

But yeah, anything over $700 would be too much for a regular DIY guy for me
So I guess I'll just stick w/ what I have do more preventative maintenance instead