KyleB

Google "zf fill procedure". It's all there in plain English, straight from zf.

KyleB

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...Procedures.pdf

There, this is ZFs document. 30C is a little less than 90 degrees Fahrenheit, so obviously ZF wants the trans running and up to temperature before you can even start getting accurate fill levels.

If your indy is filling these gearboxes cold, he/she is doing it wrong.

donnyriz

Thanks KyleB, I pulled a bunch of other documents from ZF about the refilling procedure. One thing that is a bit unclear: Cycle from R to D and cycle through gear 1-4 and hold each gear for about 10 seconds. Does this mean to hold the gears at idle or to to 2K rpms for each 10 seconds?

Thanks man

KyleB

yea, just cycle through the gears a couple of times while fluid is being pumped in. I shifted from park to reverse, held reverse for 2 or three seconds. then i went to back park for a couple of seconds. then i put it in steptronic mode, held S1 for 3 seconds, S2 for three seconds, then S3 for three seconds. without the car actually moving, I don't remember EGS allowing me to upshift any further than S3. I did that all without touching the accelerator and I had the car fully elevated on a two post lift. I'm going off of memory, but I'm pretty sure that's what I did.

hope that helps.

donnyriz

Thanks KyleB,

Had the solenoids and seals replaced to today. That bridge adapter was pretty worn down. When I picked it up they gave me back the foam strip and said they didn't change it out. YIKES! How crucial is the strip and what is its purpose? Should I go back and raise hell and have it put in? Thanks again for your time man. Trans feels great so far...

KyleB

meh, foam strip isnt that big of a deal. if the old one is still there its fine.

notice any improvement with the car?

donnyriz

KyleB, transmission feels so smooth for the most part. I can tell sometimes its still adapting, but overall Im very pleased. Of course I am still fearing that I am going to smash on the accelerator and my 4F83 code will return, so I have been driving cautious I guess. How long after your swap till you felt confident the problem was resolved?
Interesting that right before my swap I asked the shop what they thought the chances were the solenoids and seals would solve the problem and they literally said, "well as long as you dont have a 'clutch code'. Well, I know the 4F codes are all clutch codes. They said when they see these, they automatically tell the customer that they need new clutch packs or transmission.
Im also glad that I had just recently had the fluid and pan changed, so that this was basically my 2nd drain and fill. They had to add 2 more quarts this time.
BTW, for anyone else reading this...if you have someone drain and fill your trans fluid, make sure you confirm that they understand the proper refill procedure. If they are not shifting through the gears, and holding in reverse, then the torque converter is not being filled properly. I believe this is reason people claim they had their fluid changed and their trans failed soon after.

I'll report back after I make a long distance trip, and hopefully I get no fail safe. And if so, for $500 in parts and $200 labor....if my transmission is fixed, I owe you, KyleB, a dinner and a drink! Thanks!

KyleB

It's been well over 20k miles since I repaired my transmission, and knock on wood I have not had any faults or erratic behavior. That being said, it's always in the back of my mind that transmission failure is possible.

Well that's the problem with mechanics like that. "Clutch codes" don't necessarily mean you have worn packs. It just means that EGS detected slip. It's just like a misfire code in an engine; a misfire on cylinder three doesn't necessarily mean you have a piston cracked in half and need an entire engine rebuild, it could be something else. It's just telling you what the symptom is. Condemning an entire transmission because of a 'clutch code' is a shotgun blast approach that takes no critical thinking skills and may be overkill.

Good luck to you, sounds like youre on the right track.

firebert

I know I have a 3 series, not a a 5 series, but this thread seems to have the most thoughtful discussion of the issues with the ZF 6HP19, so I figure I'll give it a shot.

I have a 2006 BMW 325i and about 91k miles on it. For a while it's had the following symptoms:

2-1 downshift jolt when coasting to a stop in D
Delayed engagement of reverse (2-3 seconds after selecting R)
Intermittent jolt applying light throttle while coasting
Code 4F86 logged a number of times in the info memory

I've had the car less than one year, and as far as I knew it had original fluid. I had also noticed a fluid leak at the mechatronics sleeve. So a few weeks ago with the help of this awesome DIY (thank you!) I replaced the fluid, pan/filter, mechatronics sleeve, and the rectangular "bridge" and four little sleeves above the mechatronics. OEM parts and fluid. I didn't notice any metal shavings in the pan. I did the adaptation reset via INPA.

After the service, the symptoms above persisted, *plus* the following:

- About 750 miles after that service, with a warm transmission (80C+), uphill at highway speed I got a failsafe condition with error 4F85. It resolved immediately after restarting the car and hasn't recurred (albeit I've only driven it ~250 miles since then).

- Every now and then it'll refuse to downshift even at full throttle/kickdown switch. When this happens, if I let off the throttle and coast for a bit, it'll resume normal operation. Always going uphill, highway speed, warm transmission. No yellow cog on dashboard, just strange behavior and (I think) code 4F80 ("type of shift: 5 after 5") when this happens. It's like it started to downshift, noticed something wasn't right, and aborted.

Codes are:

4F85 in the error memory (that one time it went into failsafe)

4F80 in info memory (seems connected with the not-wanting to downshift symptom, always "5 after 5")

4F86 in info memory (don't notice a particular symptom conncted with this one)

Here's what I've gathered:

I've been told 4F86 is "something they all do" and not a major problem but just an indication that a shift was slightly funky/slippery. I guess this is consistent with the fault being in the info mem and not error mem. But then 4F80 is in info mem too and has the momentarily refuse-to-downshift symptom to it.

I've also been told that 4F85 is a "sure sign" of bushing wear on the input shaft. But then Kyle and I presume others (how many?) seem to have resolved 4F85 with solenoids/valve body only. So I'm skeptical of that claim. At the same time, spending $500 on solenoids only to have them not solve the problem means $500 less in the "new/rebuild transmission" budget.

Here's what I'm wondering:

1) Kyle, in your original thread you referenced 4F81 and 4F85 as being A and E clutch. Is there a list somewhere that gives more info on these codes? Any idea what clutch is slipping with 4F80? 4F86?

2) Having (hopefully) ruled out fluid level and condition, the sealing parts above the mechatronics, and the sleeve, as failure points, and based on the (mostly) success stories posted with (mostly) similar symptom lists, I'm thinking to replace solenoids. But I don't want to shotgun it at the problem if there's something in my code/symptom list that indicates there might be something else going on. So I'm looking for advice on whether solenoids are a good next step.

Many, thanks again for the advices and the great DIY.

KyleB

1. I'm not aware of any list that shows each individual fault code, but I'm sure one exists somewhere. some of the 4F8X codes will specify which clutch is slipping, others will reference what gear change the slip occurred during. I don't know off hand what those two are referencing, but rest assured they are slip codes

2. In my opinion, it is the next logical step. It's a bit of a gamble, which is why dealers automatically condemn the gearbox if a car comes in with any of those codes. they take the shotgun blast approach. they want to make the most amount of money and never see your car come in with more slip codes, and that's the only way they can think to do it. it makes sense from their perspective, its non-sensical from mine.

good luck.