10 speaker audio re-design, creating 'mid' woofer
06-18-2007, 06:52 AM
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I recently became the owner of a 2006 525i with the standard US 10 speaker sound system. Like many others, I was unsatisfied with the low-end performance of the audio system, and started researching the sound system to determine possible improvements. The solution which has been implemented is unique, and others may find it interesting or some of the provided information useful.
After acquiring a sufficient understanding of the stock sound system by reading material on this forum and elsewhere, the first ?step? I took was simply replacing the stock ?subwoofer? amp which drives the two under-seat woofers. The replacement amp chosen included a low-pass filter, variable crossover and bass boost. While this did significantly improve the low-end bass capabilities of the system, it did expose a basic problem that I believe is inherent the in the design of the E60 10 speaker audio system. The 8 inch under-seat woofers are not capable of satisfactorily reproducing the entire audio spectrum below the 4 inch woofers in the rear-deck and front door panels. Spending time adjusting the settings of the under-seat woofers once the replacement amp was installed, the under-seat woofers could either reproduce the low end bass (< 90 Hz), or they could fill the ?mid? low bass (90Hz - 160Hz), but they could not properly reproduce the entire spectrum below 160Hz. Leaving the under-seat woofers below 90Hz left a ?hole? that the 4 inch woofers did not fill. Raising the under-seat woofers low-pass filter to 160Hz produced muddy and thin low end bass.
I thought about replacing the under-seat woofers, but was unconvinced I could find a driver that would accurately handle everything under 160Hz. I was also unconvinced I could find a 4 inch driver which could be installed in the rear-deck that would satisfactorily cover the 90-160Hz range left when the user-seat woofers where set to 90Hz. An alternative would be to turn the 8 inch drivers into ?mid-woofers?, then add a true ?sub-woofer? to handle the deep low end. This is the approach I took, and a schematic of the design is attached to this posting.
The basic design is based on providing a full-spectrum signal to the mid-woofer amplifier. Crossover settings would then be used to coordinate the rear-deck speakers, the under-seat woofers and a sub-woofer in the trunk. This full-spectrum signal was achieved by combing the signal driving the rear-deck speakers with the original ?sub-woofer? signal feeding the under-seat woofers. (I did make the assumption that the original crossover settings of the stock head unit did not leave a frequency ?hole? between the rear-deck and the under-seat woofers. If so, the ?hole? would also exist in the new setup.)
To optimize the rear-deck audio performance, the stock rear deck speakers were replaced with a pair of MB Quart RVF-210 components. Driving the RVF-210s is a JL e2150 amp. The JL e2150 has the capability of taking a speaker-level input, and then producing a line-level output through its internal line-output converter. This high frequency line-level converted output of the rear deck speakers is combined with the low frequency line-level output of the head unit to produce the full frequency spectrum.
A Pyle PLXR-5 active crossover was used to combine the low and high frequency inputs. The PLXR-5 takes a two channel input, and separates those two channels into two high and two low channels. The properties of the high and low channels are configurable through the various settings provided by the PLXR-5. The two high frequency output channels of the PLXR-5 are not used. The two low frequency channels are connected to the input of an Alpine MRV-F350 amplifier. The MRV-F350 is a 4 channel amp which can be bridged to 3 channels, which is how it is used in this configuration. Channels 1 + 2 drive the 2 under-seat woofers (at 75 watts per channel), while channels 3 + 4 are bridged to 300 watts and drive the subwoofer in the trunk. The MRV-F350 has separate variable crossover, bass boost, and sensitivity settings for channels 1+2 and 3+4.
The current crossover settings are: rear-deck > 160Hz, mid-woofer 60-170Hz, sub-woofer <80Hz. I have only played with these settings for a short period of time, and I do expect these to be the final settings.
The subwoofer used is an Alpine SWS-1223D, wired to 4 Ohms, housed in a 1.266 sealed enclosure (15x15x13.5 using .75 inch plywood). I was worried about sound proofing in the trunk, so I opted for a 12 inch sub and a large enclosure.
My initial impressions are it has the potential to be a very good system. For what it is being used for, I have experienced no problems hearing the low-end bass produced by the sub in the trunk, although I suspect articulation might be problematic above 80Hz. The separation between the ?lower? mid-bass produced by the under-seat woofers and the ?upper? mid-bass produced by the 4 inch woofers is dramatic, and pleasant. With some music, directionality of the sound produced by the under-seat woofers is a problem. The rear-deck RVF-210s with separate amp are a noticeable improvement, as one would expect. The high-end of the RVF-210s is a little harsh, so I plan on testing a 2db tweeter reduction using the available RVF-210 crossover settings. The subwoofer significantly reduces the trunk space, and others might want to opt for a smaller subwoofer. I will continue to break the system in and tweak the settings over the following months.
I took a few pictures during the process and will post them in the coming days.
After acquiring a sufficient understanding of the stock sound system by reading material on this forum and elsewhere, the first ?step? I took was simply replacing the stock ?subwoofer? amp which drives the two under-seat woofers. The replacement amp chosen included a low-pass filter, variable crossover and bass boost. While this did significantly improve the low-end bass capabilities of the system, it did expose a basic problem that I believe is inherent the in the design of the E60 10 speaker audio system. The 8 inch under-seat woofers are not capable of satisfactorily reproducing the entire audio spectrum below the 4 inch woofers in the rear-deck and front door panels. Spending time adjusting the settings of the under-seat woofers once the replacement amp was installed, the under-seat woofers could either reproduce the low end bass (< 90 Hz), or they could fill the ?mid? low bass (90Hz - 160Hz), but they could not properly reproduce the entire spectrum below 160Hz. Leaving the under-seat woofers below 90Hz left a ?hole? that the 4 inch woofers did not fill. Raising the under-seat woofers low-pass filter to 160Hz produced muddy and thin low end bass.
I thought about replacing the under-seat woofers, but was unconvinced I could find a driver that would accurately handle everything under 160Hz. I was also unconvinced I could find a 4 inch driver which could be installed in the rear-deck that would satisfactorily cover the 90-160Hz range left when the user-seat woofers where set to 90Hz. An alternative would be to turn the 8 inch drivers into ?mid-woofers?, then add a true ?sub-woofer? to handle the deep low end. This is the approach I took, and a schematic of the design is attached to this posting.
The basic design is based on providing a full-spectrum signal to the mid-woofer amplifier. Crossover settings would then be used to coordinate the rear-deck speakers, the under-seat woofers and a sub-woofer in the trunk. This full-spectrum signal was achieved by combing the signal driving the rear-deck speakers with the original ?sub-woofer? signal feeding the under-seat woofers. (I did make the assumption that the original crossover settings of the stock head unit did not leave a frequency ?hole? between the rear-deck and the under-seat woofers. If so, the ?hole? would also exist in the new setup.)
To optimize the rear-deck audio performance, the stock rear deck speakers were replaced with a pair of MB Quart RVF-210 components. Driving the RVF-210s is a JL e2150 amp. The JL e2150 has the capability of taking a speaker-level input, and then producing a line-level output through its internal line-output converter. This high frequency line-level converted output of the rear deck speakers is combined with the low frequency line-level output of the head unit to produce the full frequency spectrum.
A Pyle PLXR-5 active crossover was used to combine the low and high frequency inputs. The PLXR-5 takes a two channel input, and separates those two channels into two high and two low channels. The properties of the high and low channels are configurable through the various settings provided by the PLXR-5. The two high frequency output channels of the PLXR-5 are not used. The two low frequency channels are connected to the input of an Alpine MRV-F350 amplifier. The MRV-F350 is a 4 channel amp which can be bridged to 3 channels, which is how it is used in this configuration. Channels 1 + 2 drive the 2 under-seat woofers (at 75 watts per channel), while channels 3 + 4 are bridged to 300 watts and drive the subwoofer in the trunk. The MRV-F350 has separate variable crossover, bass boost, and sensitivity settings for channels 1+2 and 3+4.
The current crossover settings are: rear-deck > 160Hz, mid-woofer 60-170Hz, sub-woofer <80Hz. I have only played with these settings for a short period of time, and I do expect these to be the final settings.
The subwoofer used is an Alpine SWS-1223D, wired to 4 Ohms, housed in a 1.266 sealed enclosure (15x15x13.5 using .75 inch plywood). I was worried about sound proofing in the trunk, so I opted for a 12 inch sub and a large enclosure.
My initial impressions are it has the potential to be a very good system. For what it is being used for, I have experienced no problems hearing the low-end bass produced by the sub in the trunk, although I suspect articulation might be problematic above 80Hz. The separation between the ?lower? mid-bass produced by the under-seat woofers and the ?upper? mid-bass produced by the 4 inch woofers is dramatic, and pleasant. With some music, directionality of the sound produced by the under-seat woofers is a problem. The rear-deck RVF-210s with separate amp are a noticeable improvement, as one would expect. The high-end of the RVF-210s is a little harsh, so I plan on testing a 2db tweeter reduction using the available RVF-210 crossover settings. The subwoofer significantly reduces the trunk space, and others might want to opt for a smaller subwoofer. I will continue to break the system in and tweak the settings over the following months.
I took a few pictures during the process and will post them in the coming days.
06-27-2007, 05:00 AM
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Included in this post are two pictures of the subwoofer assembly, front and rear. Although it may appear too big, the assembly does fit in the trunk and can be moved back against the rear seat.
The rear view picture denotes the 4 channel (bridged to 3 channels) Alpine MRV-F350 amp on top, the JL e2150 mounted on the side, and the Pyle PLXR-5 mounted in the back. Also denoted are the two power distribution blocks, one for positive and one for negative. The pictures were taken before the wiring attachments were connected and anchored.
After tweaking for a week, the current configuration is rear deck (via JL e2150) >170Hz, ?mid-subs? (via MRV-F350 channels 1+2) <180Hz & >60Hz, and sub (via MRV-F350 channels 3+4 bridged) <80Hz.
There is still an audible ?hole? centered at 140 Hz that I am working on, but other than that the bass is very acceptable. The overall treble is a little bright, but I have not thought much about a resolution. Maybe I will address that in the future, but before I do I will give the current system time to break in and finalize tweaking.
The rear view picture denotes the 4 channel (bridged to 3 channels) Alpine MRV-F350 amp on top, the JL e2150 mounted on the side, and the Pyle PLXR-5 mounted in the back. Also denoted are the two power distribution blocks, one for positive and one for negative. The pictures were taken before the wiring attachments were connected and anchored.
After tweaking for a week, the current configuration is rear deck (via JL e2150) >170Hz, ?mid-subs? (via MRV-F350 channels 1+2) <180Hz & >60Hz, and sub (via MRV-F350 channels 3+4 bridged) <80Hz.
There is still an audible ?hole? centered at 140 Hz that I am working on, but other than that the bass is very acceptable. The overall treble is a little bright, but I have not thought much about a resolution. Maybe I will address that in the future, but before I do I will give the current system time to break in and finalize tweaking.
06-30-2007, 11:46 AM
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My Ride: 2004 530isport packagepremium packageactive steeringxenon hids20mm H&R spacers in the rear6 spd51kpurchase price , 32k back in 2006
Model Year: 2004 530i
no offense but that looks like a mess..
Im satisfied with my oem logic set up.
Im satisfied with my oem logic set up.
09-12-2008, 07:15 AM
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My Ride: Week 17 Build, 2008 E60 535d M Sport - Titanium Silver, Black Dakota Leather, Visibility Package, Media Package, Automatic gearbox, Steering Wheel Heating, M Double Spoke 172 19" Mixed Wheels, Auto-Dim+Exterior Mirror, Comfort seats, Front Seat Heating, Aluminium Pentan interior trim,DAB Tuner, TV Function, BMW Individual Audio System 825W !!
Now where do the golf clubs go 
09-12-2008, 10:56 AM
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YOU JUST SPOILED YOUR ENTIRE TRUNK.WHY DIDNT YOU CHECK Bruce_miranda's Signature? He did a brilliant job improving his sound system and keeping HIS TRUNK USEFULL.
02-08-2009, 05:56 AM
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Hi dont know if you can help?
I have a 56 plate 20d M sport E60, the amp is not in the boot, do you know where it could be? Thanks
I have a 56 plate 20d M sport E60, the amp is not in the boot, do you know where it could be? Thanks
Originally Posted by png1966' post='436959' date='Jun 18 2007, 10:52 AM
I recently became the owner of a 2006 525i with the standard US 10 speaker sound system. Like many others, I was unsatisfied with the low-end performance of the audio system, and started researching the sound system to determine possible improvements. The solution which has been implemented is unique, and others may find it interesting or some of the provided information useful.
After acquiring a sufficient understanding of the stock sound system by reading material on this forum and elsewhere, the first ?step? I took was simply replacing the stock ?subwoofer? amp which drives the two under-seat woofers. The replacement amp chosen included a low-pass filter, variable crossover and bass boost. While this did significantly improve the low-end bass capabilities of the system, it did expose a basic problem that I believe is inherent the in the design of the E60 10 speaker audio system. The 8 inch under-seat woofers are not capable of satisfactorily reproducing the entire audio spectrum below the 4 inch woofers in the rear-deck and front door panels. Spending time adjusting the settings of the under-seat woofers once the replacement amp was installed, the under-seat woofers could either reproduce the low end bass (< 90 Hz), or they could fill the ?mid? low bass (90Hz - 160Hz), but they could not properly reproduce the entire spectrum below 160Hz. Leaving the under-seat woofers below 90Hz left a ?hole? that the 4 inch woofers did not fill. Raising the under-seat woofers low-pass filter to 160Hz produced muddy and thin low end bass.
I thought about replacing the under-seat woofers, but was unconvinced I could find a driver that would accurately handle everything under 160Hz. I was also unconvinced I could find a 4 inch driver which could be installed in the rear-deck that would satisfactorily cover the 90-160Hz range left when the user-seat woofers where set to 90Hz. An alternative would be to turn the 8 inch drivers into ?mid-woofers?, then add a true ?sub-woofer? to handle the deep low end. This is the approach I took, and a schematic of the design is attached to this posting.
The basic design is based on providing a full-spectrum signal to the mid-woofer amplifier. Crossover settings would then be used to coordinate the rear-deck speakers, the under-seat woofers and a sub-woofer in the trunk. This full-spectrum signal was achieved by combing the signal driving the rear-deck speakers with the original ?sub-woofer? signal feeding the under-seat woofers. (I did make the assumption that the original crossover settings of the stock head unit did not leave a frequency ?hole? between the rear-deck and the under-seat woofers. If so, the ?hole? would also exist in the new setup.)
To optimize the rear-deck audio performance, the stock rear deck speakers were replaced with a pair of MB Quart RVF-210 components. Driving the RVF-210s is a JL e2150 amp. The JL e2150 has the capability of taking a speaker-level input, and then producing a line-level output through its internal line-output converter. This high frequency line-level converted output of the rear deck speakers is combined with the low frequency line-level output of the head unit to produce the full frequency spectrum.
A Pyle PLXR-5 active crossover was used to combine the low and high frequency inputs. The PLXR-5 takes a two channel input, and separates those two channels into two high and two low channels. The properties of the high and low channels are configurable through the various settings provided by the PLXR-5. The two high frequency output channels of the PLXR-5 are not used. The two low frequency channels are connected to the input of an Alpine MRV-F350 amplifier. The MRV-F350 is a 4 channel amp which can be bridged to 3 channels, which is how it is used in this configuration. Channels 1 + 2 drive the 2 under-seat woofers (at 75 watts per channel), while channels 3 + 4 are bridged to 300 watts and drive the subwoofer in the trunk. The MRV-F350 has separate variable crossover, bass boost, and sensitivity settings for channels 1+2 and 3+4.
The current crossover settings are: rear-deck > 160Hz, mid-woofer 60-170Hz, sub-woofer <80Hz. I have only played with these settings for a short period of time, and I do expect these to be the final settings.
The subwoofer used is an Alpine SWS-1223D, wired to 4 Ohms, housed in a 1.266 sealed enclosure (15x15x13.5 using .75 inch plywood). I was worried about sound proofing in the trunk, so I opted for a 12 inch sub and a large enclosure.
My initial impressions are it has the potential to be a very good system. For what it is being used for, I have experienced no problems hearing the low-end bass produced by the sub in the trunk, although I suspect articulation might be problematic above 80Hz. The separation between the ?lower? mid-bass produced by the under-seat woofers and the ?upper? mid-bass produced by the 4 inch woofers is dramatic, and pleasant. With some music, directionality of the sound produced by the under-seat woofers is a problem. The rear-deck RVF-210s with separate amp are a noticeable improvement, as one would expect. The high-end of the RVF-210s is a little harsh, so I plan on testing a 2db tweeter reduction using the available RVF-210 crossover settings. The subwoofer significantly reduces the trunk space, and others might want to opt for a smaller subwoofer. I will continue to break the system in and tweak the settings over the following months.
I took a few pictures during the process and will post them in the coming days.
After acquiring a sufficient understanding of the stock sound system by reading material on this forum and elsewhere, the first ?step? I took was simply replacing the stock ?subwoofer? amp which drives the two under-seat woofers. The replacement amp chosen included a low-pass filter, variable crossover and bass boost. While this did significantly improve the low-end bass capabilities of the system, it did expose a basic problem that I believe is inherent the in the design of the E60 10 speaker audio system. The 8 inch under-seat woofers are not capable of satisfactorily reproducing the entire audio spectrum below the 4 inch woofers in the rear-deck and front door panels. Spending time adjusting the settings of the under-seat woofers once the replacement amp was installed, the under-seat woofers could either reproduce the low end bass (< 90 Hz), or they could fill the ?mid? low bass (90Hz - 160Hz), but they could not properly reproduce the entire spectrum below 160Hz. Leaving the under-seat woofers below 90Hz left a ?hole? that the 4 inch woofers did not fill. Raising the under-seat woofers low-pass filter to 160Hz produced muddy and thin low end bass.
I thought about replacing the under-seat woofers, but was unconvinced I could find a driver that would accurately handle everything under 160Hz. I was also unconvinced I could find a 4 inch driver which could be installed in the rear-deck that would satisfactorily cover the 90-160Hz range left when the user-seat woofers where set to 90Hz. An alternative would be to turn the 8 inch drivers into ?mid-woofers?, then add a true ?sub-woofer? to handle the deep low end. This is the approach I took, and a schematic of the design is attached to this posting.
The basic design is based on providing a full-spectrum signal to the mid-woofer amplifier. Crossover settings would then be used to coordinate the rear-deck speakers, the under-seat woofers and a sub-woofer in the trunk. This full-spectrum signal was achieved by combing the signal driving the rear-deck speakers with the original ?sub-woofer? signal feeding the under-seat woofers. (I did make the assumption that the original crossover settings of the stock head unit did not leave a frequency ?hole? between the rear-deck and the under-seat woofers. If so, the ?hole? would also exist in the new setup.)
To optimize the rear-deck audio performance, the stock rear deck speakers were replaced with a pair of MB Quart RVF-210 components. Driving the RVF-210s is a JL e2150 amp. The JL e2150 has the capability of taking a speaker-level input, and then producing a line-level output through its internal line-output converter. This high frequency line-level converted output of the rear deck speakers is combined with the low frequency line-level output of the head unit to produce the full frequency spectrum.
A Pyle PLXR-5 active crossover was used to combine the low and high frequency inputs. The PLXR-5 takes a two channel input, and separates those two channels into two high and two low channels. The properties of the high and low channels are configurable through the various settings provided by the PLXR-5. The two high frequency output channels of the PLXR-5 are not used. The two low frequency channels are connected to the input of an Alpine MRV-F350 amplifier. The MRV-F350 is a 4 channel amp which can be bridged to 3 channels, which is how it is used in this configuration. Channels 1 + 2 drive the 2 under-seat woofers (at 75 watts per channel), while channels 3 + 4 are bridged to 300 watts and drive the subwoofer in the trunk. The MRV-F350 has separate variable crossover, bass boost, and sensitivity settings for channels 1+2 and 3+4.
The current crossover settings are: rear-deck > 160Hz, mid-woofer 60-170Hz, sub-woofer <80Hz. I have only played with these settings for a short period of time, and I do expect these to be the final settings.
The subwoofer used is an Alpine SWS-1223D, wired to 4 Ohms, housed in a 1.266 sealed enclosure (15x15x13.5 using .75 inch plywood). I was worried about sound proofing in the trunk, so I opted for a 12 inch sub and a large enclosure.
My initial impressions are it has the potential to be a very good system. For what it is being used for, I have experienced no problems hearing the low-end bass produced by the sub in the trunk, although I suspect articulation might be problematic above 80Hz. The separation between the ?lower? mid-bass produced by the under-seat woofers and the ?upper? mid-bass produced by the 4 inch woofers is dramatic, and pleasant. With some music, directionality of the sound produced by the under-seat woofers is a problem. The rear-deck RVF-210s with separate amp are a noticeable improvement, as one would expect. The high-end of the RVF-210s is a little harsh, so I plan on testing a 2db tweeter reduction using the available RVF-210 crossover settings. The subwoofer significantly reduces the trunk space, and others might want to opt for a smaller subwoofer. I will continue to break the system in and tweak the settings over the following months.
I took a few pictures during the process and will post them in the coming days.
02-12-2009, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ganji' post='787799' date='Feb 8 2009, 09:56 AM
Hi dont know if you can help?
I have a 56 plate 20d M sport E60, the amp is not in the boot, do you know where it could be? Thanks
I have a 56 plate 20d M sport E60, the amp is not in the boot, do you know where it could be? Thanks
