Alfa Romeo 156 vs. BMW 5-series
08-10-2005, 05:00 AM
#11
Contributors
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Iceland - Luxembourg
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 02:44 PM
To all of the guys that went through the effort to read my post and reply,
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. (...)
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. (...)
[snapback]157844[/snapback]
In my view it's the difference in momentum.
08-10-2005, 05:01 AM
#12
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Also, I noticed that one of the members replied saying that he felt the difference in the weight between the E46 and the E60 to be very significant. Another member said that I should have bought the E90 if I wanted cornering speeds, due to its much lighter weight.
With all my respect to you, do you know that the difference in weight between the E46 325i and the E60 525i is 80 Kg (1485 compared to 1565 kg, and the E90 325i is 1480 Kg). Do you know how much is 80 kg? Does 80 kg represent that great difference you felt? I guess not.
With all my respect to you, do you know that the difference in weight between the E46 325i and the E60 525i is 80 Kg (1485 compared to 1565 kg, and the E90 325i is 1480 Kg). Do you know how much is 80 kg? Does 80 kg represent that great difference you felt? I guess not.
08-10-2005, 05:06 AM
#13
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Originally Posted by Benpalmason' date='Aug 10 2005, 04:00 PM
[quote name='Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 02:44 PM']To all of the guys that went through the effort to read my post and reply,
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. (...)
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. (...)
[snapback]157844[/snapback]
In my view it's the difference in momentum.
[snapback]157857[/snapback]
[/quote]It wasn't addressed to you at all. You are the only one along with northernmonkey who tried to give a scientific explanation.
The rest went into luxury and quality issues, saying that I can't compare cars. What has quality or luxury got to do with cornering speeds?
08-10-2005, 05:18 AM
#14
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 7,790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: My ex-ride: EU '08 LCI 520dA. Space Grey, Sport Seats in Black Leather/Fabric Anthracite, Sport Steering Wheel, A/C with Extended Features, Hi-Fi Speakers, Cup Holders, Cruise with Braking function, Folding Rear Seats, Xenons, Park Distance Control.
What has quality or luxury got to do with cornering speeds?
It seems that you should trade you 520i to a 130i or 135i (or Alfa 159).
Then you can have all the cornering fun there is
.
[snapback]157859[/snapback]
[/quote]It seems that you should trade you 520i to a 130i or 135i (or Alfa 159).
Then you can have all the cornering fun there is
.
08-10-2005, 05:21 AM
#15
Contributors
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Prague, Czech Rep. - Europe
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2004 BMW 530I steptronic, Orient Blue, Dakota Black Leather, Finishers Aluminium with Wave Cutting interior, NAVIgation, Radio PROFESSIONAL, CD in-dash, Hi-Fi extended sound system, PDC system, Bi-Xenons lights with washers, cruise-control, heated seats, Extended AC, auto"shade" mirrors, auto lights sensors, rain/wiper sensor, M-tech leather multifunction steering wheel, side airbags rearseats, sliding armrest, smoker's package (I don't smoke!), velour floor mats, spare wheel and jack, 122 style rims winter setup, M135 style rims summer setup
[color=red]Mods:[/color]
[color=blue]M tech sport steering wheel with M5 SMG paddles working retrofit done !
Trunk lid opening button retrofit done.[/color]
[color=blue]3M window 35% tint done
Chrome grilles
E60.net Clings
[/color]
Originally Posted by Ricracing' date='Aug 10 2005, 08:18 AM
What has quality or luxury got to do with cornering speeds?
It seems that you should trade you 520i to a 130i or 135i (or Alfa 159).
Then you can have all the cornering fun there is .
[snapback]157859[/snapback]
It seems that you should trade you 520i to a 130i or 135i (or Alfa 159).
Then you can have all the cornering fun there is
.[snapback]157866[/snapback]
correct
08-10-2005, 05:26 AM
#16
Members
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sheds
Alfa always were and still are a good handling car. I say in the dry turn the DSC off and forget the slow in fast out theory and set the speed you want i.e 87kph and set the car up off the brakes and not accelerating so it is neutral. The wheels may well squeal but don't accelerate as if you ae near to it's limits you will break traction and loose the rear end. As a professional driver I can tell you it takes far longer than 2 months to become comfortable with rear wheel drive after moving from 6 years with a front wheel drive car. Power out the corner in a front wheel drive car and the woorse that will happen is the car will run wide, do it in a rear wheel drive car and without considerable practice and experieince you WILL loose the rear end and stop facing back in the direction you came from
Practice and give yourself time to get used to the larger car. I have had many a pursuit with faster stolen cars who can not shake you due to inexperience and a lack of familiarity with the car.
Finally it is a bigger and more comfortable car. If you want a sports car then buy one. I know you refer to the E60 as a sports sedan but really? What makes it a sports sedan other than a standard sedan? Is the A6 a sports sedan? Every car out there in the same class could be a sports sedan.
Add sports suspension, 3.0 + engine either diesel or petrol and your starting to get there.
Your just not driving it properly
Cheers
Alfa always were and still are a good handling car. I say in the dry turn the DSC off and forget the slow in fast out theory and set the speed you want i.e 87kph and set the car up off the brakes and not accelerating so it is neutral. The wheels may well squeal but don't accelerate as if you ae near to it's limits you will break traction and loose the rear end. As a professional driver I can tell you it takes far longer than 2 months to become comfortable with rear wheel drive after moving from 6 years with a front wheel drive car. Power out the corner in a front wheel drive car and the woorse that will happen is the car will run wide, do it in a rear wheel drive car and without considerable practice and experieince you WILL loose the rear end and stop facing back in the direction you came from
Practice and give yourself time to get used to the larger car. I have had many a pursuit with faster stolen cars who can not shake you due to inexperience and a lack of familiarity with the car.
Finally it is a bigger and more comfortable car. If you want a sports car then buy one. I know you refer to the E60 as a sports sedan but really? What makes it a sports sedan other than a standard sedan? Is the A6 a sports sedan? Every car out there in the same class could be a sports sedan.
Add sports suspension, 3.0 + engine either diesel or petrol and your starting to get there.
Your just not driving it properly
Cheers
08-10-2005, 06:05 AM
#17
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Knobjockey
Thanx for the advice, I am really delighted to hear from someone who understood what I meant.
It is very true what you mentioned regarding the slow in fast out technique that I used in the Alfa. I started adjusting my driving style to RWD, but as you said two months are not enough. However the curve I was describing is a 270 degrees curve, it is an exit from a highway, so it is very easy to adjust yourself through the curve due to its long distance, I couldn't get past 79 km/h with the DSC on.
Regarding loosing the rear end, I've done that before with an old Merc C280, and after a mixture of oversteering, sliding, then fistailing of course, I was facing where I came from
, thank god I did not hit any thing that day.
I refer to the E60 as a sport sedan, because it is supposed to be the sportiest in the category (I did not drive Jag S-Type). Come on man, A6? It is completely diconnected from the ground, no feedback from the steering whatsoever. Merc E-class? My father has one, it is a disaster on four wheels. Once it pops (in a curve) it never stops . So that is why I refered to the E60 as a sports sedan.
And again why did you mention the engine? What has power got to do with the cornering speed? As you know, a 2.2 L engine is lighter than the 3.0 L, so if there is an advantage in a corner, it would be for the 520i over the 530i due to less weight in front.
The sport suspension package is my last resort (Although the Alfa's suspension was the stock, not the sport). BTW, how much does it cost?
In your opinion, should I trade the E60 for an Alfa 166 (and live with the shaky Alfas again
?)
Thanx for the advice, I am really delighted to hear from someone who understood what I meant.
It is very true what you mentioned regarding the slow in fast out technique that I used in the Alfa. I started adjusting my driving style to RWD, but as you said two months are not enough. However the curve I was describing is a 270 degrees curve, it is an exit from a highway, so it is very easy to adjust yourself through the curve due to its long distance, I couldn't get past 79 km/h with the DSC on.
Regarding loosing the rear end, I've done that before with an old Merc C280, and after a mixture of oversteering, sliding, then fistailing of course, I was facing where I came from
, thank god I did not hit any thing that day.I refer to the E60 as a sport sedan, because it is supposed to be the sportiest in the category (I did not drive Jag S-Type). Come on man, A6? It is completely diconnected from the ground, no feedback from the steering whatsoever. Merc E-class? My father has one, it is a disaster on four wheels. Once it pops (in a curve) it never stops
. So that is why I refered to the E60 as a sports sedan.And again why did you mention the engine? What has power got to do with the cornering speed? As you know, a 2.2 L engine is lighter than the 3.0 L, so if there is an advantage in a corner, it would be for the 520i over the 530i due to less weight in front.
The sport suspension package is my last resort (Although the Alfa's suspension was the stock, not the sport). BTW, how much does it cost?
In your opinion, should I trade the E60 for an Alfa 166 (and live with the shaky Alfas again
?)
08-10-2005, 07:02 AM
#18
Members
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: France
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 535d
Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 03:05 PM
Knobjockey
Thanx for the advice, I am really delighted to hear from someone who understood what I meant.
It is very true what you mentioned regarding the slow in fast out technique that I used in the Alfa. I started adjusting my driving style to RWD, but as you said two months are not enough. However the curve I was describing is a 270 degrees curve, it is an exit from a highway, so it is very easy to adjust yourself through the curve due to its long distance, I couldn't get past 79 km/h with the DSC on.
Regarding loosing the rear end, I've done that before with an old Merc C280, and after a mixture of oversteering, sliding, then fistailing of course, I was facing where I came from? , thank god I did not hit any thing that day.
I refer to the E60 as a sport sedan, because it is supposed to be the sportiest in the category (I did not drive Jag S-Type). Come on man, A6? It is completely diconnected from the ground, no feedback from the steering whatsoever. Merc E-class? My father has one, it is a disaster on four wheels. Once it pops (in a curve) it never stops? . So that is why I refered to the E60 as a sports sedan.
And again why did you mention the engine? What has power got to do with the cornering speed? As you know, a 2.2 L engine is lighter than the 3.0 L, so if there is an advantage in a corner, it would be for the 520i over the 530i due to less weight in front.
The sport suspension package is my last resort (Although the Alfa's suspension was the stock, not the sport). BTW, how much does it cost?
In your opinion, should I trade the E60 for an Alfa 166 (and live with the shaky Alfas again ?)
Thanx for the advice, I am really delighted to hear from someone who understood what I meant.
It is very true what you mentioned regarding the slow in fast out technique that I used in the Alfa. I started adjusting my driving style to RWD, but as you said two months are not enough. However the curve I was describing is a 270 degrees curve, it is an exit from a highway, so it is very easy to adjust yourself through the curve due to its long distance, I couldn't get past 79 km/h with the DSC on.
Regarding loosing the rear end, I've done that before with an old Merc C280, and after a mixture of oversteering, sliding, then fistailing of course, I was facing where I came from?
, thank god I did not hit any thing that day.I refer to the E60 as a sport sedan, because it is supposed to be the sportiest in the category (I did not drive Jag S-Type). Come on man, A6? It is completely diconnected from the ground, no feedback from the steering whatsoever. Merc E-class? My father has one, it is a disaster on four wheels. Once it pops (in a curve) it never stops?
. So that is why I refered to the E60 as a sports sedan.And again why did you mention the engine? What has power got to do with the cornering speed? As you know, a 2.2 L engine is lighter than the 3.0 L, so if there is an advantage in a corner, it would be for the 520i over the 530i due to less weight in front.
The sport suspension package is my last resort (Although the Alfa's suspension was the stock, not the sport). BTW, how much does it cost?
In your opinion, should I trade the E60 for an Alfa 166 (and live with the shaky Alfas again
?)[snapback]157886[/snapback]
To answer your first question, as soon as I deactivate the DSC (fully), I really have to take care about the way I press the gaz pedal, especially in DS mode. If I press to much while not going fully straigh, I immediately start to loose the rear train but as it is quite new, I suppose that I need more experience. With the DSC, I have no trouble and I have nice cornering speed even if it is actualy difficult to compare...
08-10-2005, 07:18 AM
#19
Senior Members
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No way an Alfa 156 2.0TS can beat a E60.
I was at Sepang 2 weeks ago, and was on track with BMW driver training instructors. One of them driving a E90 330i with 1 passenger COULD NOT catch me on the track no matter how hard he tried. we did this for over 3 laps!
Another tried to pull away from me in another E90 330i for 3 laps and couldn't, it also had 1 passenger.
In both cases, my car only had the driver, but I reckon the extra passenger in the E90s made up the weight difference + these E90s used for driver training are pretty bare bones in terms of options and trim.
So there, the E60 kicks ass!
I was at Sepang 2 weeks ago, and was on track with BMW driver training instructors. One of them driving a E90 330i with 1 passenger COULD NOT catch me on the track no matter how hard he tried. we did this for over 3 laps!
Another tried to pull away from me in another E90 330i for 3 laps and couldn't, it also had 1 passenger.
In both cases, my car only had the driver, but I reckon the extra passenger in the E90s made up the weight difference + these E90s used for driver training are pretty bare bones in terms of options and trim.
So there, the E60 kicks ass!
08-10-2005, 07:51 AM
#20
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Originally Posted by eggz' date='Aug 10 2005, 06:18 PM
No way an Alfa 156 2.0TS can beat a E60.
I was at Sepang 2 weeks ago, and was on track with BMW driver training instructors. One of them driving a E90 330i with 1 passenger COULD NOT catch me on the track no matter how hard he tried. we did this for over 3 laps!
Another tried to pull away from me in another E90 330i for 3 laps and couldn't, it also had 1 passenger.
In both cases, my car only had the driver, but I reckon the extra passenger in the E90s made up the weight difference + these E90s used for driver training are pretty bare bones in terms of options and trim.
So there, the E60 kicks ass!
I was at Sepang 2 weeks ago, and was on track with BMW driver training instructors. One of them driving a E90 330i with 1 passenger COULD NOT catch me on the track no matter how hard he tried. we did this for over 3 laps!
Another tried to pull away from me in another E90 330i for 3 laps and couldn't, it also had 1 passenger.
In both cases, my car only had the driver, but I reckon the extra passenger in the E90s made up the weight difference + these E90s used for driver training are pretty bare bones in terms of options and trim.
So there, the E60 kicks ass!
[snapback]157918[/snapback]
So are you saying that the E90 330i, although faster than you in a straight line, could not pass you on a track? This means that your cornering speeds are much higher than his! What if he was in front, would you have been able to keep on his tail in the same manner?
Also what is your suspension setup? I would really like to know.