Alfa Romeo 156 vs. BMW 5-series
08-10-2005, 01:43 AM
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I bought my new 520i two month ago to replace my humble Alfa 156 1.6 TS.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong
! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed.
I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do
.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong
! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed. I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do
.
08-10-2005, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 09:43 AM
I bought my new 520i two month ago to replace my humble Alfa 156 1.6 TS.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong? ! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed.
I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong?
! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed. I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do
.[snapback]157798[/snapback]
dont take this the wrong way but your "test" is not really very scientific, there are far two many variables involved here to be getting too upset with your E60:
1. overall size/wheelbase of vehicles totally different
2. power to weight ratio's
3. traction control characteristics
4. accuracy of your speed measurements
5. accuracy and variance between two different manufacturers speedometers
..to name a few.......the list could go on.....
more details on your car would also help, your 520i what model is it? SE, Sport? what options (specifically steering AS/dynamic drive etc etc?).
I used to own the SE, now have the M-Sport with the M-Sport suspension and this car corners MUCH better than my previous SE model, stiffer, more responsive, more like my previous E46 coupe.
Don't let you test get you down, if you went out and spent a lot less $$$$ on a Mini Cooper-S that too would leave your 520i "for dead" through the twisties sections, different cars for different purposes.
08-10-2005, 02:05 AM
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
I really like the Alfas but the BMW is a GERMAN luxury car so
WHO CARES man about the cornerings no one beated me yet ...
WHO CARES man about the cornerings no one beated me yet ...
Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 10:43 AM
I bought my new 520i two month ago to replace my humble Alfa 156 1.6 TS.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong? ! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed.
I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do.
(For all our American friends: the Alfa Romeo 156 is a small executive car, more like the 3-series or the A4 in size, but on the sporty side of the world, not on the luxurious side).
Before I bought my E60, I knew that no car in the sedan segment would match the 156 for agility and handling except for a BMW. And since I hate the looks of the new E90 3-series, I decided to go for the E60 thinking that it would surpass the Alfa, if not in agility and the magnificient ability to change directions, then at least in cornering speeds.
Man was I wrong?
! THe Alfa proved to have 5+ km/h on any medium raduis curve. The BMW is more composed on curves due to the smart suspension setup, but it is slower! Everyday I try to take the same curves on my way to work at the same speeds as the Alfa, but I consistently fail. The DSC intervenes and prevents me from increasing my speed. I have driven my E60 now for two month, and i am now very familiar with its cornering limits. I really do not understand how the Alfa is faster. Can this be due to the DSC?
I am seriously thinking of turning off the DSC and give it a go, but I am a little bit afraid that the car will not handle as good as the Alfa with the DSC off. (BTW, does any of you switch off the DSC frequently?)
I thought that it might be due to tires. My Alfa had Bridgestone Potenza RE720, which is an ultra high performance tire, while my BMW has Dunlop SP Sport 01, which is also an ultra high performance tire. The tires sizes are 205/60 R15 for the Alfa, and 225/55 R16 for the E60. So the difference should be in favor of the E60, not the other way around.
I really don't understand how a $20,000 sports sedan can outperform a $45,000 BMW E60. I am really disappointed and don't know what to do
.[snapback]157798[/snapback]
08-10-2005, 03:14 AM
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My Ride: 2004 BMW 530I steptronic, Orient Blue, Dakota Black Leather, Finishers Aluminium with Wave Cutting interior, NAVIgation, Radio PROFESSIONAL, CD in-dash, Hi-Fi extended sound system, PDC system, Bi-Xenons lights with washers, cruise-control, heated seats, Extended AC, auto"shade" mirrors, auto lights sensors, rain/wiper sensor, M-tech leather multifunction steering wheel, side airbags rearseats, sliding armrest, smoker's package (I don't smoke!), velour floor mats, spare wheel and jack, 122 style rims winter setup, M135 style rims summer setup
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[/color]
come on man. Alfa is not a very good car to quality.
You can't conclude and say: Alfa is better than BMW" based on your one month of driving to work.
I would say it as this: You compare uncomparable cars, you compare really nothing, no point. I mean come on, based on how fast you go thru couple of curves????? What does it say? Especially with indicated difference +/- 5km/h???? (like 2miles/hr) That is even a number within the tolerance of the gauges error. How exactly you read 5km point on the gauges??? This is really not very accurate.
Alfa 156 is also much smaller.
You want to judge those two? Ok, go and take those two cars out on a track and do couple of rouds with each car and have the speed and time be measured by profesional instruments. And let me know what the result will be, but I pretty much know by now ......
Also drive Alfa for 3 yrs and 3 BMW E60 for 3 yrs....... That is the real test. Comfort, driving performance, engines, consumtion...... ahhhh come on no way to compare those two.
You can't conclude and say: Alfa is better than BMW" based on your one month of driving to work.
I would say it as this: You compare uncomparable cars, you compare really nothing, no point. I mean come on, based on how fast you go thru couple of curves????? What does it say? Especially with indicated difference +/- 5km/h???? (like 2miles/hr) That is even a number within the tolerance of the gauges error. How exactly you read 5km point on the gauges??? This is really not very accurate.
Alfa 156 is also much smaller.
You want to judge those two? Ok, go and take those two cars out on a track and do couple of rouds with each car and have the speed and time be measured by profesional instruments. And let me know what the result will be, but I pretty much know by now ......
Also drive Alfa for 3 yrs and 3 BMW E60 for 3 yrs....... That is the real test. Comfort, driving performance, engines, consumtion...... ahhhh come on no way to compare those two.
08-10-2005, 03:34 AM
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
I changelled with my previous car (SKODA Octavia RS 1,8T 20V) and it was no match.
But the RS is a *-*.-*--*- against my new e60 3L diesel.
But the RS is a *-*.-*--*- against my new e60 3L diesel.
Originally Posted by Peter530i' date='Aug 10 2005, 12:14 PM
come on man. Alfa is not a very good car to quality.
You can't conclude and say: Alfa is better than BMW" based on your one month of driving to work.
I would say it as this: You compare uncomparable cars, you compare really nothing, no point. I mean come on, based on how fast you go thru couple of curves????? What does it say? Especially with indicated difference +/- 5km/h???? (like 2miles/hr) That is even a number within the tolerance of the gauges error. How exactly you read 5km point on the gauges??? This is really not very accurate.
Alfa 156 is also much smaller.
You want to judge those two? Ok, go and take those two cars out on a track and do couple of rouds with each car and have the speed and time be measured by profesional instruments. And let me know what the result will be, but I pretty much know by now ......
Also drive Alfa for 3 yrs and 3 BMW E60 for 3 yrs....... That is the real test.? Comfort, driving performance, engines, consumtion...... ahhhh come on no way to compare those two.
You can't conclude and say: Alfa is better than BMW" based on your one month of driving to work.
I would say it as this: You compare uncomparable cars, you compare really nothing, no point. I mean come on, based on how fast you go thru couple of curves????? What does it say? Especially with indicated difference +/- 5km/h???? (like 2miles/hr) That is even a number within the tolerance of the gauges error. How exactly you read 5km point on the gauges??? This is really not very accurate.
Alfa 156 is also much smaller.
You want to judge those two? Ok, go and take those two cars out on a track and do couple of rouds with each car and have the speed and time be measured by profesional instruments. And let me know what the result will be, but I pretty much know by now ......
Also drive Alfa for 3 yrs and 3 BMW E60 for 3 yrs....... That is the real test.? Comfort, driving performance, engines, consumtion...... ahhhh come on no way to compare those two.
[snapback]157813[/snapback]
08-10-2005, 04:00 AM
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I find your comparision very odd.
You are comparing different classes of cars. The 156 should of course be compared to E46/E90.
The Alfa is about 300 kg lighter than a E60; you feel that a lot (I used to drive a E46 and the difference in the weight can be felt considerably).
What are you thinking by having 16" rims !?!?!?
For a man that is considering corner speed I find that strange
I drive on 245/40 - 18" and I wouldn't want to have any smaller than that. The 150? sport suspension option should also have helped you a lot.
You are comparing different classes of cars. The 156 should of course be compared to E46/E90.
The Alfa is about 300 kg lighter than a E60; you feel that a lot (I used to drive a E46 and the difference in the weight can be felt considerably).
What are you thinking by having 16" rims !?!?!?
For a man that is considering corner speed I find that strange I drive on 245/40 - 18" and I wouldn't want to have any smaller than that. The 150? sport suspension option should also have helped you a lot.
08-10-2005, 04:27 AM
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My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
Originally Posted by northernmonkey' date='Aug 10 2005, 01:01 PM
dont take this the wrong way but your "test" is not really very scientific, there are far two many variables involved here to be getting too upset with your E60:
1. overall size/wheelbase of vehicles totally different
2. power to weight ratio's
3. traction control characteristics
4. accuracy of your speed measurements
5. accuracy and variance between two different manufacturers speedometers
..to name a few.......the list could go on.....
more details on your car would also help, your 520i what model is it? SE, Sport? what options (specifically steering AS/dynamic drive etc etc?).
I used to own the SE, now have the M-Sport with the M-Sport suspension and this car corners MUCH better than my previous SE model, stiffer, more responsive, more like my previous E46 coupe.
Don't let you test get you down, if you went out and spent a lot less $$$$ on a Mini Cooper-S that too would leave your 520i "for dead" through the twisties sections, different cars for different purposes.
1. overall size/wheelbase of vehicles totally different
2. power to weight ratio's
3. traction control characteristics
4. accuracy of your speed measurements
5. accuracy and variance between two different manufacturers speedometers
..to name a few.......the list could go on.....
more details on your car would also help, your 520i what model is it? SE, Sport? what options (specifically steering AS/dynamic drive etc etc?).
I used to own the SE, now have the M-Sport with the M-Sport suspension and this car corners MUCH better than my previous SE model, stiffer, more responsive, more like my previous E46 coupe.
Don't let you test get you down, if you went out and spent a lot less $$$$ on a Mini Cooper-S that too would leave your 520i "for dead" through the twisties sections, different cars for different purposes.
[snapback]157802[/snapback]
I find your argument very valid, but let me answer your five points:
1. True, the Alfa is more squared on the ground. But does this mean that the Alfa is better?
2. Hp/ton: Alfa = 97.5, BMW = 109, Nm/ton: Alfa = 116, BMW= 134.6. Anyways, this has got nothing to do with the cornering speed, since I already reach the max speed capable by the car.
3. I had no traction control in the Alfa. That is why I asked if it was better if I switched off the DSC. No one answered me on this point yet.
4. Accuracy of the speed measurements: OK. If the Alfa can get 87 km/h on a curve, where the DSC in the BMW starts to intervene at 79 km/h, is it really that hard to see. Do I need specific instruments to measure the difference between 87 and 79? I guess not.
5. Speedometer differences? Come on. Would the Alfa be off the BMW by more than 10%?
Northernmonkey,
If I wanted a car to drive through twisties, I would never have bought the E60. I wanted a sports sedan. A car that can take a family, look elegant, and at the same I would be able to enjoy. I don't care about straight line acceleration, as opposed to nearly most of this forum members, I mostly care about the ability of the car to take corners, which has got nothing to do with the power of the car.
So did I make the wrong decision?
08-10-2005, 04:38 AM
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My Ride: e60 530i - SOLD!
Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 08:27 PM
[quote name='northernmonkey' date='Aug 10 2005, 01:01 PM']
dont take this the wrong way but your "test" is not really very scientific, there are far two many variables involved here to be getting too upset with your E60:
1. overall size/wheelbase of vehicles totally different
2. power to weight ratio's
3. traction control characteristics
4. accuracy of your speed measurements
5. accuracy and variance between two different manufacturers speedometers
..to name a few.......the list could go on.....
more details on your car would also help, your 520i what model is it? SE, Sport? what options (specifically steering AS/dynamic drive etc etc?).
I used to own the SE, now have the M-Sport with the M-Sport suspension and this car corners MUCH better than my previous SE model, stiffer, more responsive, more like my previous E46 coupe.
Don't let you test get you down, if you went out and spent a lot less $$$$ on a Mini Cooper-S that too would leave your 520i "for dead" through the twisties sections, different cars for different purposes.
dont take this the wrong way but your "test" is not really very scientific, there are far two many variables involved here to be getting too upset with your E60:
1. overall size/wheelbase of vehicles totally different
2. power to weight ratio's
3. traction control characteristics
4. accuracy of your speed measurements
5. accuracy and variance between two different manufacturers speedometers
..to name a few.......the list could go on.....
more details on your car would also help, your 520i what model is it? SE, Sport? what options (specifically steering AS/dynamic drive etc etc?).
I used to own the SE, now have the M-Sport with the M-Sport suspension and this car corners MUCH better than my previous SE model, stiffer, more responsive, more like my previous E46 coupe.
Don't let you test get you down, if you went out and spent a lot less $$$$ on a Mini Cooper-S that too would leave your 520i "for dead" through the twisties sections, different cars for different purposes.
[snapback]157802[/snapback]
I find your argument very valid, but let me answer your five points:
1. True, the Alfa is more squared on the ground. But does this mean that the Alfa is better?
2. Hp/ton: Alfa = 97.5, BMW = 109, Nm/ton: Alfa = 116, BMW= 134.6. Anyways, this has got nothing to do with the cornering speed, since I already reach the max speed capable by the car.
3. I had no traction control in the Alfa. That is why I asked if it was better if I switched off the DSC. No one answered me on this point yet.
4. Accuracy of the speed measurements: OK. If the Alfa can get 87 km/h on a curve, where the DSC in the BMW starts to intervene at 79 km/h, is it really that hard to see. Do I need specific instruments to measure the difference between 87 and 79? I guess not.
5. Speedometer differences? Come on. Would the Alfa be off the BMW by more than 10%?
Northernmonkey,
If I wanted a car to drive through twisties, I would never have bought the E60. I wanted a sports sedan. A car that can take a family, look elegant, and at the same I would be able to enjoy. I don't care about straight line acceleration, as opposed to nearly most of this forum members, I mostly care about the ability of the car to take corners, which has got nothing to do with the power of the car.
So did I make the wrong decision?
[snapback]157840[/snapback]
[/quote]how about get a test car such as a 530i SE and drives thru the same curve see you can tell if it is different from your 520i.
BTW when DSC cuts in the icon in the instrument cluster lights up. Did you see the amber triangle with exclaimation mark come on?
IMHO e60 is a longer wheel base and by law of physics it will always be lazier than shorter wheel based cars.
08-10-2005, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Aug 10 2005, 02:27 PM
[quote name='northernmonkey' date='Aug 10 2005, 01:01 PM']
...
...
[snapback]157802[/snapback]
I find your argument very valid, but let me answer your five points:
1. True, the Alfa is more squared on the ground. But does this mean that the Alfa is better?
2. Hp/ton: Alfa = 97.5, BMW = 109, Nm/ton: Alfa = 116, BMW= 134.6. Anyways, this has got nothing to do with the cornering speed, since I already reach the max speed capable by the car.
3. I had no traction control in the Alfa. That is why I asked if it was better if I switched off the DSC. No one answered me on this point yet.
4. Accuracy of the speed measurements: OK. If the Alfa can get 87 km/h on a curve, where the DSC in the BMW starts to intervene at 79 km/h, is it really that hard to see. Do I need specific instruments to measure the difference between 87 and 79? I guess not.
5. Speedometer differences? Come on. Would the Alfa be off the BMW by more than 10%?
Northernmonkey,
If I wanted a car to drive through twisties, I would never have bought the E60. I wanted a sports sedan. A car that can take a family, look elegant, and at the same I would be able to enjoy. I don't care about straight line acceleration, as opposed to nearly most of this forum members, I mostly care about the ability of the car to take corners, which has got nothing to do with the power of the car.
So did I make the wrong decision?
[snapback]157840[/snapback]
[/quote]Even though the hp/kg are similair for the cars, momentum is linear with weight: (m * v). Therefor more strain is put on the tyres and car when you turn it (imagine an oiltanker).
With PDC, don't be afraid to turn it off for a dry normal road. When it's slippery then it gets more fun but I wouldn't bring the family with me
Few things in life that are as fun as driving a RWD car in snow
08-10-2005, 04:44 AM
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My Ride: 523iA, 2006, Silver Grey, Black Leatherette Interior, Fine-Wood Trim Poplar Grain Brown High-Gloss, 6 Speed Automatic Transmission with Steptronic, Automatic Air Conditioning with Extended Content, Interior and Exterior Mirrors with Automatic Anti-Dazzle Function (Incl. Folding Function for Exterior Mirror), Electric Front Seats with Memory for Driver, Multi-Function Steering Wheel with Cruise Control, Adjustable Steering Column, BMW Radio with 8 Speakers and CD Drive, Park Distance Control, Universal Bluetooth Cell Phone, Electric Rear Sunblind
To all of the guys that went through the effort to read my post and reply,
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. I knew of course that everyone will think I am stupid and making a wrong comparison. Yes the BMW is in another league of quality, the Alfa felt so shaky and everything was vibrating after 6 years of ownership from new, but I expected the BMW to have at least the same cornering speeds.
And guys, there is 6 years of difference between the release dates of both cars. That is long period of time considering how fast the technological advancements are nowadays .
My Alfa was stock, with 15in rims. My BMW is also stock, with 16in rims, and wider tires. That is why I compared them. Yes I know that they are of different categories, but I thought that the E60 was faster in corners.
It seems that I thought wrong. My fault. Sorry for bothering you .
I wrote these words because I was really disappointed of the car cornering speed (not stability).
I am really sorry to attack the E60 on a forum dedicated to this car, but I am really disappointed. I knew of course that everyone will think I am stupid and making a wrong comparison. Yes the BMW is in another league of quality, the Alfa felt so shaky and everything was vibrating after 6 years of ownership from new, but I expected the BMW to have at least the same cornering speeds.
And guys, there is 6 years of difference between the release dates of both cars. That is long period of time considering how fast the technological advancements are nowadays .
My Alfa was stock, with 15in rims. My BMW is also stock, with 16in rims, and wider tires. That is why I compared them. Yes I know that they are of different categories, but I thought that the E60 was faster in corners.
It seems that I thought wrong. My fault. Sorry for bothering you .