twh

You can't really check the level with the engine off. It will flow out for sure (if it doesn't you are seriously low on fluid). Too much fluid comes back into the pan from the moving parts in the tranny. The refill procedure has you checking it with the car running and just dripping.

invisiblewave

Thanks to you both for your replies. I've been away for the last week, but I'll be taking a closer look at it shortly, starting with a proper fluid level check. I really wasn't trying to check the level last time, just determine which fluid it had in it and whether or not it needed a software flash.

I totally agree, Kyle, about VW. This will be the last VW I ever own, they sold a car here that their dealers were unable to maintain and which they were unable/unwilling to support with good customer service.

Given the cost of the solenoids, and the fact that I have access to a lift, I think I'm going to try swapping them around first and see what happens. I'm reluctant to just start throwing money at it. Getting to the valve body doesn't look like a big issue, there's a bracket lying directly underneath it but that's just 4 easily-accessible bolts. The only other possible problem seems to be clearance with the exhaust, but I don't think that's going to be a big deal either.

donnyriz

Thanks KyleB for this great write-up! I have been chasing after the same issues for a year now, and this really gives me a bit of hope now! I had a couple questions (2006 530i 96,000):

-What would you say is a fair labor time for replacing the solenoids? I don't have the jacks or tools, but I'm positive I could do the actual swap on the unit is out of the car. But I know anywhere I go into asking about this, they will hit me with $$$.

- On my BT tool, I have two options for adaptations reset. One is a lower level that I use after a fluid drain/fill and the other is listed to use when replacing new parts, etc. Would I use the second one when swapping the solenoids?

Again, thanks a lot for this posting. Ive been chasing down code 4F83 (ratio monitoring C) for about a year now, and of course I fear the worst. It's come 4 times in 10,000 miles, but only under the same conditions. When driving long-distance highway and the car hasn't stopped for at least 150 miles, quickly slowing down for traffic, and then trying to accelerate fast. The shops either say "It's dying, rebuild it ($$$)" or "Get rid of the car"). At least I can give this a shot.

Also, ++++ on the CTSC! Too bad I came across this post as I just had my pan, fluid, and sleeve replaced last week

Thanks for your time!

KyleB

sounds like the same classic symptoms we've all been getting. My guess is solenoids and new seals (the ones in my thread) will fix your problem.

If I were to guess on a labor time strictly for accessing, removing, and reinstalling the valve body without doing the solenoids and the refilling process, I'd probably put it at a 3 to 4 'book hour' job total on a RWD E60. An experienced tech can probably do it in a couple of clock hours, but sometimes you are paying for not only a techs time, but the knowledge he/she has and the fact that you aren't the one having to get your hands dirty. If I were to charge for the whole job, start to finish, I'd put it at 6-8 hours of shop time. Even if you're experienced, it's an all day affair.

I'd love to hear what other people who have done it would put the time at.

KyleB

Oh, as for the adaptations reset, you'll lose nearly the same amount of fluid as you would with a normal drain and fill without removing the pan. I don't recall seeing any kind of option like that in INPA, but if I were you I'd use the 'lower level' reset. My guess is the other one is for operations like a full transmission replacement and/or torque converter replacement where you lose the fluid that sits in the torque converter.

If you want to find a deal, find a shop that deals with Hyundai or Chryslers on a regular basis - the same 6HP19 that is in our hers is also in a number of Chrysler cars, as well as the Genesis coupe. just tell them you have a BMW with the same transmission as a (insert Hyundai or Chrysler here), and assure them they'll be fine doing the job. Seriously, removing the valve body is not that hard. They're also in Jaguars, but I wouldn't go to a Jaguar shop because rip-off.

if you have someone remove the valve body for you, my advice would be to have them replace the pan gasket if you just put a new pan in there (its cheap) and make sure they torque the fasteners to spec with a good torque wrench.

donnyriz

Thanks KyleB. Well my past two hours just went from feeling real good, to feeling real crappy. I had just picked up the car this morning after the pan, fluid and sleeve change, and I couldn't believe how good it drove. Literally felt like brand new! Take off was quick and I couldn't even feel the shifts. I know the shop hadn't reset the adaptations though, so I was just going to keep driving. I head to the freeway and switch to M mode. I was upshifting early, at 2K and was at m6 by 50mph. in less than a 1/4 mile I could feel the trans wanted to downshift, though and when it did, BAM Failsafe. Talk about a severe buzzkill. Got home, same code 4F83, cleared, and then actually reset adaptations through BT tool. Now the car feels just like it did before the Service, jerky shifts, even got the slam when I stopped once (which I rarely ever have gotten). I don't know if this is because it has to re adapt or what. I feel like I just broke it again
Interesting that the shop didnt reset adaptations and it was smooth as butter. Then in a matter of 5 minutes it like the Trans remembered "ohh yeah, I'm not supposed to be that good anymore" and now its grumpy again. Even though I feel like I was upshifting to early and often, I suppose this would have popped up at some time anyways. Aggravating.

KyleB

If you haven't replaced your solenoids, fluid and pan changes aren't going to solve your problem. resetting adaptations is a band-aid fix, not a permanent solution. you have failed components in the transmission, you need to replace them. If I was in your position (and I was, 4F85 and 4F81 at least half a dozen times) I would do exactly what I outlined in this thread, and I'd do it right away. If you do, I am confident you will permanently fix your problem.

good luck.

donnyriz

Thanks KyleB, Couple things:

- If I get this done within the next two weeks, will I still be able to use the pan and sleeve that I just had replaced a few days ago? (I don't recall there being a gasket for the pan, it was an all-in-one pan). I assume the fluid will need to be replaced again though...

- CTSC lists multiple versions of the solenoid kit. Do I have to get the car up to be able to verify which kit? Im pretty sure the 2006 (prod, month 3/05) is an M shift

- I dont see the 4 smaller sealing sleeves on CTSC. Did you find them somewhere else?

One more thing, before this swap were you also getting the serious lag when accelerating from a complete stop, and has it gone away since?

Thanks again for all your time. This has been very helpful.

KyleB

-yea, I'm sure you could reuse all of that stuff if it is literally brand new. it is an all in one pan, there is no separate filter. you can reuse the fluid - that's exactly what the dealers do belive it or not. I'd put new fluid in there - you basically will have done two drain and fills, meaning you'll have a lot of new fluid in there...more than you do now.

-yes you need to get the correct solenoid kit. i agree your car should be the older M shift set.

-i got all of my parts from the CTSC. they have the four sealing sleeves available. if you click on the 6HP19 link, they're on page two. set of four is listed for 31.55. don't forget the square bridge seal too, that one is critical.

-i wasn't getting lag, just the gearbox going into failsafe mode and logging 4F81 or 4F85. happened about 8-10 times before I did what i did.

donnyriz

Hey KyleB, so every indy that Ive gone to to ask about pulling the unit have all said that they always fill Trans fluid with the engine cold. Not a one will refill at the recommended temp. 2 things:
1- what are the differences between filling cold vs warm?
2 - Any idea how to convince them?

Got a great price from a BMW Indy for $250 for the labor if I supply all the parts.

Thanks for all your info man!