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05-09-2010, 03:57 PM
#21
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BMW no longer breaks out individual models in its sales reports but my local BMW dealer told me sales were poor when I was looking at the X5 diesel. Anecdotally, members here report seeing very few on the roads. Personally, I have seen hardly any here in the Bay Area despite living in one of the wealthiest parts of the country...
The obvious example of another car in the category is the Panamera. It has sold very well since its launch despite a far higher cost of entry and a far higher average resale price than the GT. The Panamera has been the top selling model for Porsche so far in the US in 2010... Porsche has sold 3410 Panameras in the US alone despite the car only really being available since early 2010. Porsche also reported its global sales for the Panamera to have exceeded its own high expectations. My comments about the Panamera being an initial sales success are based in sales of 4792 units in its first two months (October and November 2009). For thid calendar year, Panamera sales in the US in 2010 were 2163 units through April.
Globally, BMW delivered 4484 5 Series GT models through Q1 2010. BMW is a volume brand, Porsche much less so, and the 5 GT would be reasonably expected to comfortably outsell the Panamera, but it isn't. Given that BMW NA accounts for around 20% of BMW's global sales, and even allowing for a higher number of 5 GT's than BMW NA's market share would normally dictate, it is reasonable to conclude that the 5 GT is selling at a slower rate than the Panamera in the US. Even assuming 25% of all 4484 GT's sold through March were sold in the US, and adding an estimate for April on a pro-rata basis, the 5 GT has sold far fewer units in the US than the Panamera.
No your conclusion is not reasonable. Because it's not possible to conclude anything without having the basic data. You are assuming too much, based on your personal opinion.
What will dictate the production or not of the car is the # of sales X BMW expectation. Don't forget that GT is replacing a model that sold only 500 cars in US last year (5 series touring). This is a BIG failure.
The only competitor for the GT in my opinion is the A5 Sportback. But I think it's not being commercialized in US, right?
For you, that's ok.It's your opinion and must be respected. But I don't agree and it seems to be the opinion of the rest of the market which has bought only 500 cars in US last year.
05-09-2010, 04:28 PM
#22
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
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Cotechia, *I already gave you BMW's own sales numbers for the GT*. What part of BMW selling 4484 units through Q1 across all markets did you miss? This data is taken directly from the BMW AG interim report. BMW does not itemize US sales within its models but I am confident that my estimates are reasonable, based on sound logic and are, most probably, over generous.
While you may feel differently, BMW itself considers the CLS and the Panamera to compete with the GT.
The Acura and Crosstour were simply provided as examples that the 5 GT isn't as unique as you seem to think.
I am glad you like your car, but I am afraid the market (like most of us here) seems to have a different perspective.
Either way, I'm not going to argue with you, and I've already supported my position with more than enough data.
While you may feel differently, BMW itself considers the CLS and the Panamera to compete with the GT.
The Acura and Crosstour were simply provided as examples that the 5 GT isn't as unique as you seem to think.
I am glad you like your car, but I am afraid the market (like most of us here) seems to have a different perspective.
Either way, I'm not going to argue with you, and I've already supported my position with more than enough data.
05-09-2010, 11:32 PM
#23
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Cotechia, *I already gave you BMW's own sales numbers for the GT*. What part of BMW selling 4484 units through Q1 across all markets did you miss? This data is taken directly from the BMW AG interim report. BMW does not itemize US sales within its models but I am confident that my estimates are reasonable, based on sound logic and are, most probably, over generous.
While you may feel differently, BMW itself considers the CLS and the Panamera to compete with the GT.
The Acura and Crosstour were simply provided as examples that the 5 GT isn't as unique as you seem to think.
I am glad you like your car, but I am afraid the market (like most of us here) seems to have a different perspective.
Either way, I'm not going to argue with you, and I've already supported my position with more than enough data.
While you may feel differently, BMW itself considers the CLS and the Panamera to compete with the GT.
The Acura and Crosstour were simply provided as examples that the 5 GT isn't as unique as you seem to think.
I am glad you like your car, but I am afraid the market (like most of us here) seems to have a different perspective.
Either way, I'm not going to argue with you, and I've already supported my position with more than enough data.
"I don't like the car = the car is a failure"
"I didn't see many in my block = the car is a failure"
05-17-2010, 12:51 PM
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My Ride: 2007 530i. Purchased 6/28/07. Titanium Silver Metallic, Black Dakota Leather, Dark Poplar Trim, Steptronic, Premium Package, Cold Weather Package, Bluetooth, Adaptive Control Xenons. 10/30/07 Added OEM 124s with 245/40/18 & 275/35/18 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires. Installed red Cal Covers� from BavAuto. 11/21/07 Added OEM all-weather floor mats (for winter, carpet in summer) and coat rack. 6/26/08 installed M5-style rear spoiler. 6/30/08 put on red reflectors. 8/22/08 Euro turn signal stickers applied. 3/20/09 Installed Shadowline Trim. 3/27/09 Added Matte Black Kidney Grilles from Trinity. 4/03/09 Installed Bimmian Shadow Matte Black 530i Badges. 4/04/09 Installed LED license plate lights from Trinity. 5/01/09 Installed Brabus Interior LED Kit and White Angel Eyes. 5/02/09 Put in Brabus 6K Fogs. 5/14/09 Removed charcoal filter. 5/15/09 Installed light smoke LED side marker lamps from Trinity. 5/21/09 Sprint Booster. 6/12/09 Painted exhaust tips flat black. 6/13/09 Pulled red Cal Covers and painted calipers low gloss black. 6/27/09 RPI Ram Air Scoop from Trinity. 8/15/09 Installed Brabus's silver invisibulbs front and rear. 9/24/09 Installed R-Dash license plate LEDs from Brabaus (John).
05-18-2010, 08:13 AM
#26
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BMW no longer breaks out individual models in its sales reports but my local BMW dealer told me sales were poor when I was looking at the X5 diesel. Anecdotally, members here report seeing very few on the roads. Personally, I have seen hardly any here in the Bay Area despite living in one of the wealthiest parts of the country...
The obvious example of another car in the category is the Panamera. It has sold very well since its launch despite a far higher cost of entry and a far higher average resale price than the GT. The Panamera has been the top selling model for Porsche so far in the US in 2010... Porsche has sold 3410 Panameras in the US alone despite the car only really being available since early 2010. Porsche also reported its global sales for the Panamera to have exceeded its own high expectations. My comments about the Panamera being an initial sales success are based in sales of 4792 units in its first two months (October and November 2009). For thid calendar year, Panamera sales in the US in 2010 were 2163 units through April.
Globally, BMW delivered 4484 5 Series GT models through Q1 2010. BMW is a volume brand, Porsche much less so, and the 5 GT would be reasonably expected to comfortably outsell the Panamera, but it isn't. Given that BMW NA accounts for around 20% of BMW's global sales, and even allowing for a higher number of 5 GT's than BMW NA's market share would normally dictate, it is reasonable to conclude that the 5 GT is selling at a slower rate than the Panamera in the US. Even assuming 25% of all 4484 GT's sold through March were sold in the US, and adding an estimate for April on a pro-rata basis, the 5 GT has sold far fewer units in the US than the Panamera.
Other obvious competitors include the Mercedes CLS, the new Acura ZDX and, at the lower end of the market, the Honda Crosstour.
BMW will kill the GT. The 5 Series Touring for me is the far better car.
The obvious example of another car in the category is the Panamera. It has sold very well since its launch despite a far higher cost of entry and a far higher average resale price than the GT. The Panamera has been the top selling model for Porsche so far in the US in 2010... Porsche has sold 3410 Panameras in the US alone despite the car only really being available since early 2010. Porsche also reported its global sales for the Panamera to have exceeded its own high expectations. My comments about the Panamera being an initial sales success are based in sales of 4792 units in its first two months (October and November 2009). For thid calendar year, Panamera sales in the US in 2010 were 2163 units through April.
Globally, BMW delivered 4484 5 Series GT models through Q1 2010. BMW is a volume brand, Porsche much less so, and the 5 GT would be reasonably expected to comfortably outsell the Panamera, but it isn't. Given that BMW NA accounts for around 20% of BMW's global sales, and even allowing for a higher number of 5 GT's than BMW NA's market share would normally dictate, it is reasonable to conclude that the 5 GT is selling at a slower rate than the Panamera in the US. Even assuming 25% of all 4484 GT's sold through March were sold in the US, and adding an estimate for April on a pro-rata basis, the 5 GT has sold far fewer units in the US than the Panamera.
Other obvious competitors include the Mercedes CLS, the new Acura ZDX and, at the lower end of the market, the Honda Crosstour.
BMW will kill the GT. The 5 Series Touring for me is the far better car.
Actually sales are ahead of the game, as most of the dealers here in SoFla are selling their allocation without issue while taking orders for more. There are no current incentives on the GT like the other models including some of the "M's". Actually I stand corrected there is a 0.9% finance offer, while there is "cash back" and lease specials for most other BMW models. My understanding from sales reps, from 2 different dealers with high volume sales, is that BMW was only expecting to build "4500-5000" GT's per year. So based on your numbers they are ahead of the game, and the GT is meeting and perhaps exceeding the expectations of BMW, nor is the GT intended to be a volume model in the same vein as the F10.
I happen to own one and love it. I could have purchased any vehicle in BMW's current line up and am very satisfied with my selection. This is BMW number 7 for me, and I rank it as one of the best right up there with my e39-5, and e53-X. To put it simply there is no other large German sedan with this amount of utility and luxury its more 7 Series hatch/wagon than anything else. Its not a truck or crossover.
Pig- yeah it does run like a greased pig BTW
I especially like putting cocky 335i owners in their place as I pull/slip away from them. Ohh and BTW: I had the opportunity a couple of weeks back to thoroughly put the F10 through its paces at an Ultimate Drive event - nice car
05-18-2010, 06:36 PM
#27
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Okay, first of all, EVERYBODY knows that your seventh Bimmer HAS to be a 7 series, so FAIL there
Next, I hear you can get the GT at a HUGE discount around NYC area dealers, so I don't know what you mean about sales being on target. At the very least I doubt it.
As for the F10 being a "nice car", I'd say that from ALL the reviews that I've read so far, it looks like it does NOT handle as well as the E60. Which is understandable, because it is heavy! And that's okay if you just want a Lexus-like car. But I personally bought a Bimmer for the excitement. In retrospect, I should've bought an E46 M3, but hindsight is always 20/20. And I love my E60. though I'm sure I'll love an F10 too. What I was going to say about it though, is if you do not NEED the space of the sedan, you're way better off with a 335 coupe - so far, I think it is the best car in the BMW line up currently. Maybe it'll change once I test out the Gran Coupe though - I've got some high hopes for that one.
Getting back to the GT, I personally think its a decent car. Very much so. As a matter of fact, someone in my family is considering it against a Volvo XC90 and I'm definitely pulling for the GT. Enough said?
Next, I hear you can get the GT at a HUGE discount around NYC area dealers, so I don't know what you mean about sales being on target. At the very least I doubt it.
As for the F10 being a "nice car", I'd say that from ALL the reviews that I've read so far, it looks like it does NOT handle as well as the E60. Which is understandable, because it is heavy! And that's okay if you just want a Lexus-like car. But I personally bought a Bimmer for the excitement. In retrospect, I should've bought an E46 M3, but hindsight is always 20/20. And I love my E60. though I'm sure I'll love an F10 too. What I was going to say about it though, is if you do not NEED the space of the sedan, you're way better off with a 335 coupe - so far, I think it is the best car in the BMW line up currently. Maybe it'll change once I test out the Gran Coupe though - I've got some high hopes for that one.
Getting back to the GT, I personally think its a decent car. Very much so. As a matter of fact, someone in my family is considering it against a Volvo XC90 and I'm definitely pulling for the GT. Enough said?
05-19-2010, 08:34 PM
#28
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Okay, first of all, EVERYBODY knows that your seventh Bimmer HAS to be a 7 series, so FAIL there
Next, I hear you can get the GT at a HUGE discount around NYC area dealers, so I don't know what you mean about sales being on target. At the very least I doubt it.
As for the F10 being a "nice car", I'd say that from ALL the reviews that I've read so far, it looks like it does NOT handle as well as the E60. Which is understandable, because it is heavy! And that's okay if you just want a Lexus-like car. But I personally bought a Bimmer for the excitement. In retrospect, I should've bought an E46 M3, but hindsight is always 20/20. And I love my E60. though I'm sure I'll love an F10 too. What I was going to say about it though, is if you do not NEED the space of the sedan, you're way better off with a 335 coupe - so far, I think it is the best car in the BMW line up currently. Maybe it'll change once I test out the Gran Coupe though - I've got some high hopes for that one.
Getting back to the GT, I personally think its a decent car. Very much so. As a matter of fact, someone in my family is considering it against a Volvo XC90 and I'm definitely pulling for the GT. Enough said?
Next, I hear you can get the GT at a HUGE discount around NYC area dealers, so I don't know what you mean about sales being on target. At the very least I doubt it.
As for the F10 being a "nice car", I'd say that from ALL the reviews that I've read so far, it looks like it does NOT handle as well as the E60. Which is understandable, because it is heavy! And that's okay if you just want a Lexus-like car. But I personally bought a Bimmer for the excitement. In retrospect, I should've bought an E46 M3, but hindsight is always 20/20. And I love my E60. though I'm sure I'll love an F10 too. What I was going to say about it though, is if you do not NEED the space of the sedan, you're way better off with a 335 coupe - so far, I think it is the best car in the BMW line up currently. Maybe it'll change once I test out the Gran Coupe though - I've got some high hopes for that one.
Getting back to the GT, I personally think its a decent car. Very much so. As a matter of fact, someone in my family is considering it against a Volvo XC90 and I'm definitely pulling for the GT. Enough said?
The initial GT's that were delivered to your area where probably the ones missing desirable options. This is a car you configure to your needs. I would not even remotely consider a base GT. So again its likely the ones that "you state" are on discount in NYC are not spec'd very well. Furthermore I would endeavor to say the X versions will do better in the Northeast as well. Speaking of discounts there are dealers in this region offering 5k to 8K disounts on new e60 M5's? This is not an exageration. I was tempted that v10 is a beast!
Havent you heard and read that the GT "is actually a seven" with a hatch?
You see in my circumstances with an infant in a rear facing child seat my "sedan" space options get limited real quick . F01 Seven,,,hmmm wanted something different. X6 need 3 place seating annnd more headroom/legroom in back, X5 dont like the current version as much as I did my e53 4.4, plus the technology is not quite the same as the "F" Series cars. F10 5 not enough room.. The only car in the entire BMW line to match the interior space of the GT is the long wheel base 7, which optioned out like my car would be about $110k. So essentially the GT is a 7 series at a discount 
I'll admit the GT is an aquired taste, that I personally happen to like. If your family member hasn't driven the GT may I suggest a 550i with the sport package. If they like to drive, tell them to slide the shifter to the left, toggle EDC to Sport and hang on. The XC90 is more an X5 competitor IMHO. Make no mistake the GT is 5 door sedan with a hatch, it is not a crossover no matter how much the press tries to classify it as such.
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
#29
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The initial GT's that were delivered to your area where probably the ones missing desirable options. This is a car you configure to your needs. I would not even remotely consider a base GT. So again its likely the ones that "you state" are on discount in NYC are not spec'd very well. Furthermore I would endeavor to say the X versions will do better in the Northeast as well. Speaking of discounts there are dealers in this region offering 5k to 8K disounts on new e60 M5's? This is not an exageration. I was tempted that v10 is a beast!
Havent you heard and read that the GT "is actually a seven" with a hatch? You see in my circumstances with an infant in a rear facing child seat my "sedan" space options get limited real quick . F01 Seven,,,hmmm wanted something different. X6 need 3 place seating annnd more headroom/legroom in back, X5 dont like the current version as much as I did my e53 4.4, plus the technology is not quite the same as the "F" Series cars. F10 5 not enough room.. The only car in the entire BMW line to match the interior space of the GT is the long wheel base 7, which optioned out like my car would be about $110k. So essentially the GT is a 7 series at a discount I'll admit the GT is an aquired taste, that I personally happen to like.
If your family member hasn't driven the GT may I suggest a 550i with the sport package. If they like to drive, tell them to slide the shifter to the left, toggle EDC to Sport and hang on. The XC90 is more an X5 competitor IMHO. Make no mistake the GT is 5 door sedan with a hatch, it is not a crossover no matter how much the press tries to classify it as such.
Havent you heard and read that the GT "is actually a seven" with a hatch?
You see in my circumstances with an infant in a rear facing child seat my "sedan" space options get limited real quick . F01 Seven,,,hmmm wanted something different. X6 need 3 place seating annnd more headroom/legroom in back, X5 dont like the current version as much as I did my e53 4.4, plus the technology is not quite the same as the "F" Series cars. F10 5 not enough room.. The only car in the entire BMW line to match the interior space of the GT is the long wheel base 7, which optioned out like my car would be about $110k. So essentially the GT is a 7 series at a discount I'll admit the GT is an aquired taste, that I personally happen to like. If your family member hasn't driven the GT may I suggest a 550i with the sport package. If they like to drive, tell them to slide the shifter to the left, toggle EDC to Sport and hang on. The XC90 is more an X5 competitor IMHO. Make no mistake the GT is 5 door sedan with a hatch, it is not a crossover no matter how much the press tries to classify it as such.
05-25-2010, 05:39 AM
#30
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
Model Year: 2008
It turns out that my estimate of total US sales to date was actually overly generous.
BMWNA confirms that just 1143 GT have been sold in the US since launch, and also that US sales are indeed running behind BMWNA's expectations.
They do, however, confirm that global sales are a little ahead of expectations, although the bar appears to have been set relatively low as I already provided the global number through Q1 of 2010 in an earlier post.
BMWNA confirms that just 1143 GT have been sold in the US since launch, and also that US sales are indeed running behind BMWNA's expectations.
They do, however, confirm that global sales are a little ahead of expectations, although the bar appears to have been set relatively low as I already provided the global number through Q1 of 2010 in an earlier post.