"the ultimate passenger machine"
05-04-2010, 04:41 AM
#11
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I think you just forgot the past. Both Porsche and BWM were heavily criticized when launched both cars, because they were completely different from their line up at that time. The success later on just proved the initial critics to wrong... or not. Because a market success doesn't mean necessarily a good or a bad car.
The fact is that BMW again is creating a new category and this will always demand sometime to get used to the new concept. It's natural.
The fact is that BMW again is creating a new category and this will always demand sometime to get used to the new concept. It's natural.
The take up rate in HK is quite good, i have to say. I have seen quite a lot on the streets. There are already 2 within the estate i live in.
05-07-2010, 05:22 PM
#12
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
Model Year: 2008
I think you just forgot the past. Both Porsche and BWM were heavily criticized when launched both cars, because they were completely different from their line up at that time. The success later on just proved the initial critics to wrong... or not. Because a market success doesn't mean necessarily a good or a bad car.
The fact is that BMW again is creating a new category and this will always demand sometime to get used to the new concept. It's natural.
The fact is that BMW again is creating a new category and this will always demand sometime to get used to the new concept. It's natural.
The difference here, for the second time, is that with the X5 and Cayenne sales also started briskly - and the cars both went on to continue sell well. The GT has not been an initial sales success, and it doesn't look like sales are going to ramp up to what BMW itself would consider a sustainable number. I agree that market success does not mean a car is good or bad, but for a volume manufacturer like BMW it is absolutely critical to the car's ability to remain in the lineup. This is why it will be quietly killed. As to your final points, my own view is that the GT remains BMW's answer to a question no-one was really asking. Also, BMW isn't creating a new category at all with the GT. Others have similar cars and in some cases they are indeed selling well...
05-08-2010, 03:44 AM
#13
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I remember the past well, and I wasn't one of the naysayers in either case...
The difference here, for the second time, is that with the X5 and Cayenne sales also started briskly - and the cars both went on to continue sell well. The GT has not been an initial sales success, and it doesn't look like sales are going to ramp up to what BMW itself would consider a sustainable number. I agree that market success does not mean a car is good or bad, but for a volume manufacturer like BMW it is absolutely critical to the car's ability to remain in the lineup. This is why it will be quietly killed. As to your final points, my own view is that the GT remains BMW's answer to a question no-one was really asking. Also, BMW isn't creating a new category at all with the GT. Others have similar cars and in some cases they are indeed selling well...
The difference here, for the second time, is that with the X5 and Cayenne sales also started briskly - and the cars both went on to continue sell well. The GT has not been an initial sales success, and it doesn't look like sales are going to ramp up to what BMW itself would consider a sustainable number. I agree that market success does not mean a car is good or bad, but for a volume manufacturer like BMW it is absolutely critical to the car's ability to remain in the lineup. This is why it will be quietly killed. As to your final points, my own view is that the GT remains BMW's answer to a question no-one was really asking. Also, BMW isn't creating a new category at all with the GT. Others have similar cars and in some cases they are indeed selling well...
I am sure you can backup your arguments with data. Do you have the actual sales figures of the GT? Or you are just taking the fallacy of "I am not seeing many on the streets around me"?
All cars that I mentioned were launched with a lot of criticism. X5, X6, Cayenne, Panamera and the list goes on. Criticism by blind fans of the brand and some criticism even from the specialized media.
Of course you believe that BMW has launched GT without any market research, without checking if there is space or not for a new concept. And it is going to kill the car in a couple of years. As we can see with the extended line now with the launch of the Xdrive models. It's a clear signal, isn't it?
Of course it is a new concept. A 7 series interior and size, with the hatchback usability and the higher driving position of a SUV. Can you show me another example in this category?
05-08-2010, 05:47 AM
#14
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Ah the GT, a beautiful car for pig lovers and beer gogglers. 
This rolling monument to swine must have been designed by someone who grew up on a hog farm or who watched too many Porky Pig cartoons as a child.
This rolling monument to swine must have been designed by someone who grew up on a hog farm or who watched too many Porky Pig cartoons as a child.
05-08-2010, 06:30 AM
#15
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My Ride: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible. Midnight Blue, 6 Speed.Retired - 2007 997 Carrera S, Midnight Blue, Grey leather, premium audioRetired - 2007 550i, Monaco Blue over Beige, Navigation, Logic 7, Cold Weather Pack, Comfort Access, Sport Package
Model Year: 2008
I am sure you can backup your arguments with data. Do you have the actual sales figures of the GT? Or you are just taking the fallacy of "I am not seeing many on the streets around me"?
All cars that I mentioned were launched with a lot of criticism. X5, X6, Cayenne, Panamera and the list goes on. Criticism by blind fans of the brand and some criticism even from the specialized media.
Of course you believe that BMW has launched GT without any market research, without checking if there is space or not for a new concept. And it is going to kill the car in a couple of years. As we can see with the extended line now with the launch of the Xdrive models. It's a clear signal, isn't it?
Of course it is a new concept. A 7 series interior and size, with the hatchback usability and the higher driving position of a SUV. Can you show me another example in this category?
All cars that I mentioned were launched with a lot of criticism. X5, X6, Cayenne, Panamera and the list goes on. Criticism by blind fans of the brand and some criticism even from the specialized media.
Of course you believe that BMW has launched GT without any market research, without checking if there is space or not for a new concept. And it is going to kill the car in a couple of years. As we can see with the extended line now with the launch of the Xdrive models. It's a clear signal, isn't it?
Of course it is a new concept. A 7 series interior and size, with the hatchback usability and the higher driving position of a SUV. Can you show me another example in this category?
The obvious example of another car in the category is the Panamera. It has sold very well since its launch despite a far higher cost of entry and a far higher average resale price than the GT. The Panamera has been the top selling model for Porsche so far in the US in 2010... Porsche has sold 3410 Panameras in the US alone despite the car only really being available since early 2010. Porsche also reported its global sales for the Panamera to have exceeded its own high expectations. My comments about the Panamera being an initial sales success are based in sales of 4792 units in its first two months (October and November 2009). For thid calendar year, Panamera sales in the US in 2010 were 2163 units through April.
Globally, BMW delivered 4484 5 Series GT models through Q1 2010. BMW is a volume brand, Porsche much less so, and the 5 GT would be reasonably expected to comfortably outsell the Panamera, but it isn't. Given that BMW NA accounts for around 20% of BMW's global sales, and even allowing for a higher number of 5 GT's than BMW NA's market share would normally dictate, it is reasonable to conclude that the 5 GT is selling at a slower rate than the Panamera in the US. Even assuming 25% of all 4484 GT's sold through March were sold in the US, and adding an estimate for April on a pro-rata basis, the 5 GT has sold far fewer units in the US than the Panamera.
Other obvious competitors include the Mercedes CLS, the new Acura ZDX and, at the lower end of the market, the Honda Crosstour.
BMW will kill the GT. The 5 Series Touring for me is the far better car.
05-08-2010, 08:41 AM
#16
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My Ride: 2008 550i Jet Black on Black Leather, SAT with Paddles, Logic 7, Comfort Seats, NAV, Sport Package, PDC, Xenons, Sirius, Trinity 12W LED Angel Eyes, RPi GT Exhaust, M rear spoiler, ACS Roof Spoiler, Tinted Tail Lights, Bimmian Carbon Fiber Pillar Trim, Bimmian Shadow 550i emblem, RPi Scoop, E60 Forum Cling, Mtec bulbs in fog lights, Mtec 2W LED for License Plate Light Bulbs, K&N Filter, Bimmian LED Smoked Side Markers, Blackout roundels, Carbon Fiber Kidney Grills.
Retired Rides - 1989 325i convertible, 1995 M3, 2002 X5, 2005 545i, 2008 X5 (Lemon)
If the INITIAL demand for the car isn't there, it's likely to be an uphill battle for sales after that!! 
Thusly, an early demise for the 5GT seems likely to me! 
Thusly, an early demise for the 5GT seems likely to me!
05-08-2010, 09:07 AM
#17
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From your mouths to the BMW gods' ears. The F11 is beautiful. The GT is a pig -- time to slaughter it and make some bacon.
05-08-2010, 11:25 AM
#18
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My Ride: 2008 550i Jet Black on Black Leather, SAT with Paddles, Logic 7, Comfort Seats, NAV, Sport Package, PDC, Xenons, Sirius, Trinity 12W LED Angel Eyes, RPi GT Exhaust, M rear spoiler, ACS Roof Spoiler, Tinted Tail Lights, Bimmian Carbon Fiber Pillar Trim, Bimmian Shadow 550i emblem, RPi Scoop, E60 Forum Cling, Mtec bulbs in fog lights, Mtec 2W LED for License Plate Light Bulbs, K&N Filter, Bimmian LED Smoked Side Markers, Blackout roundels, Carbon Fiber Kidney Grills.
Retired Rides - 1989 325i convertible, 1995 M3, 2002 X5, 2005 545i, 2008 X5 (Lemon)
